Springs for the Moxon

[Tim Andrews]

I just finished my Moxon vise about 4 weeks ago, and it has been fantastic in my garage shop where I don’t have the space for a permanent bench with an installed vise. I remember seeing Paul Seller’s video but had forgotten about it, so thanks Derek for starting this post.

After using my vise I can definitely see how the right springs will be useful to keep the jaws open. I ordered springs from McMaster Carr mentioned earlier in this thread and received them today. Unfortunately, they are far too stiff to work well for this purpose. I got the 3.5 inch springs planning to drill a 1 1/16 recess to allow the jaws to close completely, and chose the smaller diameter of the 2 options. Since the minimum order is 6 springs, I even tried stretching one open to twice its normal length, cutting it in half so that the same length had half the number of coils, but still too stiff.

If anyone has a link to a weaker spring that would work for this purpose, I would appreciate if you post it.

[Michael Bulatowicz]

I just finished my Moxon vise about 4 weeks ago, and it has been fantastic in my garage shop where I don’t have the space for a permanent bench with an installed vise. I remember seeing Paul Seller’s video but had forgotten about it, so thanks Derek for starting this post.

After using my vise I can definitely see how the right springs will be useful to keep the jaws open. I ordered springs from McMaster Carr mentioned earlier in this thread and received them today. Unfortunately, they are far too stiff to work well for this purpose. I got the 3.5 inch springs planning to drill a 1 1/16 recess to allow the jaws to close completely, and chose the smaller diameter of the 2 options. Since the minimum order is 6 springs, I even tried stretching one open to twice its normal length, cutting it in half so that the same length had half the number of coils, but still too stiff.

If anyone has a link to a weaker spring that would work for this purpose, I would appreciate if you post it.

Which springs, specifically, did you order? McMaster Carr carries a number of different spring rates for each size. . .

[Tim Andrews]

I ordered these: https://www.mcmaster.com/9657k455

There are 2 options at this length of compression springs, and I got the smaller diameter spring.

[Bill Carey]

Reading this thread got me to wondering: is there a distinct advantage to have a "floating" front chop, or is it simply a matter of the hardware chosen to build your moxon? I used Yost vise screws that attach to the front chop so it moves with action of the screw.

Just wondering if there is a nuance to a floating front chop that I missed.
2020-04-10_09h06_50.jpg

[Michael Bulatowicz]

I ordered these: https://www.mcmaster.com/9657k455

There are 2 options at this length of compression springs, and I got the smaller diameter spring.

Another option might be Century Spring Company (www.centuryspring.com). They have a greater variety of spring rates for similar size springs.

[chris carter]

Reading this thread got me to wondering: is there a distinct advantage to have a "floating" front chop, or is it simply a matter of the hardware chosen to build your moxon? I used Yost vise screws that attach to the front chop so it moves with action of the screw.

Just wondering if there is a nuance to a floating front chop that I missed.
2020-04-10_09h06_50.jpg

I have a twin screw on my bench and the chop floats. I find it an advantage more than a disadvantage. If I need my hands free I can put my piece of wood in there and then use my knee or my hip to push it closed and hold the wood temporarily before turning the handles. Also, I don't have a lot of grip strength in my right hand (damaged tendons - long term recovery) and if I have a really heavy piece of wood clamped up I can use the same technique when loosening the vise and then I have both hands available to keep the piece from falling rather than just one hand. I personally don't have any issue with needing the chops to automatically open. When I release the tension, the piece easily comes out (unless I rack the chop hard, then you get a little wedging action and I might need to give it a bump with the palm of my hand to release it). I dunno; I've never found myself saying "I wish this chop automatically opened." But that's just my experience.

[Derek Cohen]

I have a twin screw on my bench and the chop floats. I find it an advantage more than a disadvantage. If I need my hands free I can put my piece of wood in there and then use my knee or my hip to push it closed and hold the wood temporarily before turning the handles. Also, I don't have a lot of grip strength in my right hand (damaged tendons - long term recovery) and if I have a really heavy piece of wood clamped up I can use the same technique when loosening the vise and then I have both hands available to keep the piece from falling rather than just one hand. I personally don't have any issue with needing the chops to automatically open. When I release the tension, the piece easily comes out (unless I rack the chop hard, then you get a little wedging action and I might need to give it a bump with the palm of my hand to release it). I dunno; I've never found myself saying "I wish this chop automatically opened." But that's just my experience.

Chris, I have used twin skew vises for some years before I build my current bench, and then moved to a leg vise and wagon tail vise. Of course, the Moxon is a twin screw vises, which is why you are referring to it.

Here's the thing: I use the twin screw/Moxon differently to you. For me, mine is an efficient method.

Let's take the springs out of the equation for a moment. When I want to clamp a board, I do not attempt to use both screws. I place the board at one end of the chop, and close the chop on that side. Once this is done. I leave that side alone, and only work with the screw on the other side.

Now I can open and close the vise with one screw. Open the chop, place the board in the centre, and tighten the single screw. Done. Want to remove the board? Just loosen one screw and remove the board. Done.

What the springs do is hold the chop to the open position so that sliding the board behind the chop is uncomplicated by a floppy chop closing the gap.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[chris carter]

Chris, I have used twin skew vises for some years before I build my current bench, and then moved to a leg vise and wagon tail vise. Of course, the Moxon is a twin screw vises, which is why you are referring to it.

Here's the thing: I use the twin screw/Moxon differently to you. For me, mine is an efficient method.

Let's take the springs out of the equation for a moment. When I want to clamp a board, I do not attempt to use both screws. I place the board at one end of the chop, and close the chop on that side. Once this is done. I leave that side alone, and only work with the screw on the other side.

Now I can open and close the vise with one screw. Open the chop, place the board in the centre, and tighten the single screw. Done. Want to remove the board? Just loosen one screw and remove the board. Done.

What the springs do is hold the chop to the open position so that sliding the board behind the chop is uncomplicated by a floppy chop closing the gap.

Regards from Perth

Derek

I often do the same working off only one screw.

I'm not saying springs aren't great. I just think it's a personal preference thing. Just like (as I was responding to Bill's post), a floating chop vs one that moves with a turning of the screws is just a personal preference. No better or worse for all, just better or worse for some with a preference toward one or the other. I did notice on your moxon (which, I might add, looks more like a piece of art than a tool! One day I will have that level of skill....), you have leather (or crubber?) on both sides. I only have leather on the outer chop as that provided so much grip that both sides would have been extreme overkill for me. But IF I DID have it on both, then I could see the difficulty of getting wood in and out - particularly without smashing up the leather. Since I only have it on the outer subconsciously tilt the piece of wood by a degree or two so it slides past the top of the leather every time. That wouldn't work very well with leather on both sides I don't think. I'd need to open the chop further than the tiny amount I currently open it to turn a piece of wood around or swap say one drawer side for another drawer side. In that case, yeah, springs would probably be preferable for me.

[Tim Andrews]

Another option might be Century Spring Company (www.centuryspring.com). They have a greater variety of spring rates for similar size springs.

Michael, thanks for posting that link. I previously did a Google search for over an hour and that company didn’t show up. Their website is a bit difficult to navigate with so many options, because their search filters don’t work well (at least on my computer), but at least they have some springs that might work.

I found a link on EBay and ordered some springs here: https://www.ebay.com/itm/293247074523

They have smaller diameter, weaker springs that I think will work. For $6 including delivery, it’s worth a shot. They are coming from China, so delivery is 2 to 5 weeks. But since my vise works well as it is, I can afford the wait.

[Bill Carey]

....... When I want to clamp a board, I do not attempt to use both screws. I place the board at one end of the chop, and close the chop on that side. Once this is done. I leave that side alone, and only work with the screw on the other side. .............Regards from Perth

Derek

I do exactly the same thing - set the left side and only operate the right to clamp or release a board.

So it seems - except for Chris' kinda unique case - it is simply a matter of the hardware chosen that dictates a floating chop. Or as you referred to it, a floppy chop. (Whatever floppy chops really are, they can't be good. )

[Derek Cohen]

The name of the spring I am using is a "conical spring".

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Tom Bussey]

The springs on a moxon style vise are a a nice very cheap addition, but if you have a reason for not wanting them or if they are to complicated then by all means don't use them. It is not rocket science.

[Tim Andrews]

Hi, just a quick update to this thread. I was having difficulty finding springs that were not too strong, and were the right diameter. I found these springs on EBay, and even though they took a month to arrive, I was in no hurry and the price was right at $6.00 with shipping: https://www.ebay.com/itm/305mm-Compr...72.m2749.l2649

The spring I ordered was 1.5mm diameter steel, 25mm OD, 305mm length (about 12”). I wanted a longer spring than some others have used, so that it would still work when the jaws were opened over 3”. After some experimenting, I ended up trimming the springs to about 4 1/2” length on each side, and drilled a 1” diameter by 1/2” deep recess to accommodate the folded spring and allow the jaws to close completely.

As Derek indicated, I consider this a very nice upgrade to the Moxon vise. It works quicker and more efficiently with the springs added.

[Adam Grund]

Can I bring back an old thread and ask those of you who bought the conical springs, where you got them?
I’ve searched a number of online spring specific stores, as well as McMaster Carr, and so far have been unsuccessful at finding a spring where the small end diameter is at least .750/ 19mm (the size of the shaft on my vise)
I suppose one fox could be cutting the spring further up wherever the diameter enlarges to the diameter needed

Thanks,
Adam

[Patrick Whitehorn]

Adam,
I ordered these: https://www.mcmaster.com/1692K47/ They are quite large, but they work very very well.

Patrick