Vise Chop facing Ideas?

[Rob Luter]

Rob, I used cheap cork from Michaels (or somewhere, can’t remember) and stuck it on with the 3M stuff. This is what it looks like after about 3 years. Desperately needs replacing. Maybe I abuse it, or didn’t apply it well, but it’s not long lasting. I’ll likely try the crubber or the cork/rubber Derek shows.


Attachment 446783

That was my experience too. I had originally lined it with cork years ago and it held up OK. That said, it shrank and grew with humidity and you had to be careful not to tear it. I went to Michaels or Hobby Lobby and got some fresh cork and it wasn't the same stuff. It would crumble when you tried to cut it. I'll probably order some crubber from Benchcrafted. I need to measure my vise chop first.

[John Keeton]

I had Crubber on mine and it did well, but I used 3M spray adhesive and it failed. I haven’t replaced it with anything yet, but mine doesn’t get the use that most of you all are accustomed to. On the base of my shavehorse I do have a piece of inner tube rubber and it works very well. Originally, I had a piece wrapping the head, but it didn’t hold up. I haven’t seen the need to replace it.

I should have clarified - the Crubber held up well. It was only the adhesive bond that failed. I may attempt another adhesive at some point.

[Paul F Franklin]

I got my rubberized cork from Mcmaster. I used 1/8" thick. Grips well, doesn't collect chips and "stuff" and has held up well.

[chris carter]

Back to this thread as I move to the chop-lining step. When you read Benchcrafted's blurb in praise of Crubber, it ends by calling it "Every bit (and perhaps moreso) as grippy as suede." So, is suede the gold standard? Two questions:

1) Does suede pick up all kinds of sawdust and small chips? I wouldn't want to grind those into my parts.

2) Should you cut the liner only as long as the distance between the lead screws, or the full width of the front chop and put holes in for the screws? I'm leaning toward the latter as I think this would distribute the clamping force better, but I've seen people do it both ways. (This is a Moxon, not a twin-screw that started this thread.)

1) No. The leather will not pick up sawdust and chips. I've never had that happen.
2) My bench, and my previous one, had twin screw vises instead of Moxon vises. But I would still go all the way across because situations could arise where you might want to clamp outside the screws. My father-in-law has a Moxon and I have personally clamped outside the screws on it - so there you go! It's only a few inches so I don't really see the advantage of staying inside the screws (a couple dollars??).

Here's a shot of my outer chop (again, twin screw instead of Moxon, but they do the same thing really). My previous bench had a similar twin screw with leather and although that bench was retired after just three years, the leather was in perfect condition. This shot is my new bench after one year of use. I include the photo to demonstrate that a seam in the leather is meaningless. Because of the dimensions of my chop I was getting into the quarter-hide land and I didn't want to spend that much. So I bought two small pieces and just lined them up. It has absolutely zero impact and you'd never know other than being able to see some hide glue on the seam.
chop.jpg

As for Crubber - I personally would not use it. It's not significantly cheaper than 3oz veg tan leather, but it is nowhere near as durable. My father-in-law has had no issues with Crubber on his moxon after a few years, but that vise rarely gets used. But if you search all over this forum and the rest of the interwebs you find plenty of reports of it eventually breaking down and needing to be replaced. With leather, the only failure is related to perhaps choosing the wrong kind of leather, or not sufficiently gluing it - but the leather will last eons. Benchcrafted even makes references to Crubber's comparatively short life span. So I would only use Crubber if you don't like animal products or if leather is too expansive in your country. So yes, I would say that veg tan leather is the gold standard. Put it on fuzzy side out, and scratch up the smooth side before gluing to your chop. Then use a knife to cut out the holes and trim off the excess.

[Michael J Evans]

In regards to using two pieces instead of one solid.
I can't understand why anyone would have objections to using two pieces. Even if they were minutely dimensionally different, isn't the leather compressible?
How exact do you really have to have the clamping force distributed?

[Bob Jones 5443]

Alright, I'm going with soft two-sided suede. I hope I'm not violating a rule here, but here's the link:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Strips-of-S...72.m2749.l2649

I am not affiliated with the seller.

I'll cut it to full width, and then cut a narrow, parallel strip to cover the bottom inch and a half of the front chop.

I have brush-on contact cement. Any pros/cons for using that here? Mine is low-VOC, but still smells, so maybe it will hold. I used it recently to bond Formica to plywood for my router table.

[Bob Jones 5443]

I purchased cork-rubber on eBay.

This is the inside of the chop ...



Regards from Perth

Derek

Derek, how do you remove the lead screws from the rear chop? I guess you could unscrew the rods through the rear of the vise.

Since reading your blog, I've also wondered how your front chop behaves through those bushings. Does it angle in and out or does it need to go on and off "straight?"

[chris carter]

Alright, I'm going with soft two-sided suede. I hope I'm not violating a rule here, but here's the link:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Strips-of-S...72.m2749.l2649

I am not affiliated with the seller.

I'll cut it to full width, and then cut a narrow, parallel strip to cover the bottom inch and a half of the front chop.

I have brush-on contact cement. Any pros/cons for using that here? Mine is low-VOC, but still smells, so maybe it will hold. I used it recently to bond Formica to plywood for my router table.

If you haven’t purchased yet, I strongly recommend getting a full grain veg tan leather in 3 to 4 oz. Here’s a link to where I got mine: https://www.ebay.com/itm/192766711720

My first vise I used contact cement. A pain in the butt, but it worked fine with zero issues. I wouldn’t do contact cement again because of the pain in the butt part (I do a little leather working though, and I do use it for leather to leather bonds before stitching – so it’s not like I hate the stuff in general). I’ve used TBIII and Elmers Glue All for a number of leather strops and no issues. My current bench vise I used liquid hide glue. That was the easiest and I partially chose it because if I ever have to re-glue a section (or heaven forbid, replace it all), I won’t have to scrape all the old glue 100% off. You can pretty much use just about any type of glue. That said, Wood by Wright has a video where he did both sides of his vise with contact cement on one side and hide glue on the other and the contact cement had peeling while the hide glue side was perfect. That is anecdotal though….

[Derek Cohen]

Derek, how do you remove the lead screws from the rear chop? I guess you could unscrew the rods through the rear of the vise.

Since reading your blog, I've also wondered how your front chop behaves through those bushings. Does it angle in and out or does it need to go on and off "straight?"

Yes, unscrew through the rear, Bob. I’m not sure what you mean by angle. Everything is square.

Further to the design, I have triangular springs on my chop ...



These springs collapse and allow the chop to close up, but assist in opening it when the wheels are loosened ...





I’ve been using cork-rubber for over two years now, starting with my previous Moxon, when I also added it to the leg vise and tail vise. It still looks like new (and I do use the bench and Moxon a bit). I like that it is grippy and has a memory - when indented by a dowel, for example, it will return to its shape.

Note that my bench vises and Moxon used suede leather before, and I removed this as it would soak up oil (from finishes, or spills) and lose its grip. The cork-rubber repels oil. Leather also wears and eventually needs to be replaced. The cork-rubber will no doubt need to be replaced at some stage ... when? At this rate, in about 5 years or so. I can live with that.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Bob Jones 5443]

Derek, thanks for the crisp detail.

By "angled," I was hunting for the word to describe letting the front chop pivot from side to side as you pull it out or push it in. I see yours is on bushings, so the springs are helpful. I took a chance and am just using elongated holes in the chop, so the wood rides on the Acme thread. Maybe there will be bushings in my future.

Well, the suede/Crubber/leather debate lives on, along with the choice of glue. Stumbling forward to the next decisions. I'll post the completed vise in another thread (pre-oil, pre-lining).

[Phil Stone]

Chris, what type of glue do you use for gluing the leather to the wood? I used 3M spray adhesive, and it's not good at all -- edges are peeling off, etc.. I'll try your suggestion of roughing up the smooth side before applying adhesive.

[chris carter]

Chris, what type of glue do you use for gluing the leather to the wood? I used 3M spray adhesive, and it's not good at all -- edges are peeling off, etc.. I'll try your suggestion of roughing up the smooth side before applying adhesive.

I have use contact cement, TBIII, Elmers Glue-all, and TB liquid hide glue. They all work for gluing leather to wood. I prefer the PVAs and LHG because it's easier. Definitely rough up the smooth side - you can use a knife to scrape it or a rasp or whatever. I'm very familiar with 3M Super77. It is great stuff for certain applications - and YES, it does lose it's adhesion over time so it should never be used for anything permanent.

[steven c newman]

Mine just uses the leather nail bag from my old Carpenter's nail apron.....the leather belt is the strop I use. I just cut enough of the nail bag to cover the inside face of the chop....

[Tom Bender]

About 5 years ago I installed leather only to the top 2" and never needed more. Installed it a little proud of the top, clamped tight and planed smooth. Way better than trying to cut it perfectly with a knife either before or after gluing in place.
Vise 2.jpg
The 2" x 1/2" x 27" jaws are removable, held by magnets and a french cleat. The hard maple set never gets used. They are slick and tend to need a crushing grip. The leather grips like an octopus.

[Scott Winners]

You want the hair side probably, with the flesh side scraped down to unform thickness. Dang it, my google fu is failing me. Anyway, much cheaper (likely) to a buy a long thin piece at uniform thickness, rather than a short wide one.

Huh. I got Chris Schwarz's latest workbench book over the New Year. In that book crubber is his second favorite, his first choice for face vise faces is suede, glued down with epoxy. Garment weight suede should be a slam dunk, something like 4-6 ounce thickness I think. I got 9.5 million internet hits in 0.56 seconds.