Member
Exactly the case and why I have no sympathy for a lot of people who get injured. Taking the safety equipment off of your saw except when absolutely necessary and then operating unsafely, that's your fault not the saw's. If you're that stupid, you deserve what you get. But what's the first thing most Saw Stop owners do when they get their "safe" saw? They take off the blade guard!Originally Posted by Rod Sheridan
Last edited by Lee Schierer; 02-26-2018 at 6:11 PM.
Member
Seems like he could have done quite a few things differently to have avoided that avoidable accident. In then end I think this one just comes down to education.
If at first you don't succeed, redefine success!
Member
Any of evidence that more Sawstop owners do this than owners of other brands?
I think not.
Last edited by Lee Schierer; 02-26-2018 at 6:10 PM.
Just a Duffer
Member
We know what happened in the video had nothing to do with brands. It is a common scene seen in MANY youtube videos whatever the brand of the saw is, and it is a very bad habit of many tablesaw users. This guy was lucky that he kept his old habit but was using a SS. The money he spent on his SS...has been well spent in the circumstances.
You can also find many many youtube videos, including some produced by some better known woodworkers who do not use a guard or even a riving knife/splitter on their tablesaws. Simply too many of them.
Simon
Last edited by Simon MacGowen; 02-26-2018 at 4:28 PM.
Contributor
This problem of removing guards is reinforced by both woodworking shows and magazines. I see more TS's w/o guards than with them in FWW's articles. Same thing with New Yankee Woodworker and This Old House. FWW can at least hide behind the fact that most articles come from woodworkers not under their employ. Not the case with NYW and TOH though.
I understand that some guards are poorly made and frustrating to use, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't use a guard. There are at least a couple aftermarket ones available that work very well. Do some research and invest in your safety.
John
Contributor
Actually, there's no proof that the SawStop technology reduces injuries to experienced, trained, and careful woodworkers. True, there are many reported cases where a body part touched the blade, the saw stopped, and the injury was minor or nonexistent. But that doesn't mean that there would have been an injury had a conventional saw been used.
[Added] SawStop technology might even increase other injuries, such as those from kickback, because of misunderstandings about what the technology can actually do and not do.
Until comprehensive data is collected about table saw injuries, complete enough so that variables can be controlled for (age, health, experience, time spent in shop, etc.), we won't know what the overall benefit of SawStop technology is.
If the woodworker is inexperienced, untrained, and careless (and has no business being in the shop at all), then I could see, even without data, that SawStop would reduce injuries. But how many Sawmill Creek members are inexperienced, untrained, and careless?
I think of it this way: Right now, I am extremely careful when making cuts, knowing how dangerous my saw is. Would I be that careful if I thought the saw was safer? Also, my shop is full of power equipment that doesn't have a SawStop equivalent, even if I wanted to buy such a thing. It's better to treat all power equipment the same: DANGEROUS.
This is sort of similar to a story I heard of a country intersection with no stop sign. Everyone in the county knew it was dangerous. After a stop sign was put up, accidents increased. The theory is that the stop sign encouraged drivers with the right-of-way to drive as if they had the right-of-way.
Last edited by Marc Rochkind; 03-03-2018 at 2:36 PM.
Member
You know the shortest debates I've seen here? Whether or not SawStops are high quality tools. I'm awaiting delivery on my second SawStop, both of which were purchased primarily because of their quality and the quality of the company's customer service.
Contributor
You should be twice as safe now.
"Anything seems possible when you don't know what you're doing."
Member
Now, I understand why the local school I visited has spent so much money, acquiring four SawStop's (All ICS's!).
Simon
Member
Are you driving more recklessly now that the cars have a lot more safety features compared to 30 years ago? Anybody who does that is making a big mistake.
There are plenty of data out there regarding the number of amputations on table saws per year and it should be possible to find how many are just weekend worriers or hobbyist and how many are professionals. I suspect that a sawstop will not detect what type of user you are and the reduction will be equal for hobbyist and professionals :-)
Contributor
Taken from; The guardian 2016
Behind this demarking lies the concept of “shared space” and “naked streets”, developed in the 1990s by the late Dutch engineer, Hans Monderman. He held that traffic was safest when road users were “self-policing” and streets were cleared of controlling clutter. His innovations, now adopted in some 400 towns across Europe, have led to dramatic falls in accidents. Yet for some reason Monderman’s ideas remain starkly uninfluential in the world of “big” health and safety, especially in Britain.
Monderman’s principle is that freedom to assess risk for ourselves is what makes us safer. Rules, controls, signs, traffic lights all reduce our awareness of our surroundings and thus our sense of danger. On roads, he said: “When you don’t exactly know who has right of way, you tend to seek eye contact with other road users. You automatically reduce your speed … and take greater care.”
Member
Tell this to a guy behind the steering wheel of a Hummer!
Simon
Contributor
I believe someone already stated that statistics apply to the overall group not an individual within a group.
Member
But when my own safety is at stake, including amputations, I study statistics to avoid becoming a statistic!
Simon
Contributor
Simon, like i said statistics don't apply to you individually, they apply to a percentage of 100,000 Simons or 1,000,000 Simons.
They are a generalization of you risk factor, and it doesn't take into account how you as an individual will operate or how you will fare.
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