Marcus, I think many people assume that an old stanley bailey needs work, whereas a LN is ready to go right out of the box. I have never had to flatten a sole. I have taken the plane to sandpaper on plate glass to clean up some surface rust and smooth out some areas of pitting, but that is about it. Mostly I disassemble them, give them a cleaning, sometimes in citric acid. I sharpen the blade, put it back together. Works fine. I haven't even "upgraded" the blades with offerings from LN, Hock, et al.
I don't doubt that the thicker LN blade made from A2 steel will out perform the thinner carbon steel stanley blade in some difficult cuts. Frankly, I think this is most of the difference in performance. The main thing is the sharpness, toughness, and thickness of the blade. But, as can be seen from another thread on Bridge City Tools, there are aspects of tool design that make more expensive tools out perform the LN tools. In that thread the owners of expensive Bridge City planes are having to defend themselves against accusations of tool snob. Why? It is clearly a better built, and more asthetically pleasing tool than the LN. Why doesn't that justify the higher price?
I like my stanley baileys. In fact my best user #5 is a type 20. It has the blue japanning, a lateral adjustment lever that is made from bent over metal, but real hardwood handles. Most of what I have read would suggest that I could never get such a plane to work because the quality is poor. It sure didn't need much fettling and it works just fine. If I can find a bargain bedrock, I'll buy it, but I'm not convinced that the bedrock design has any real performance advantage over the bailey design--but that is a topic for another thread.
"History is strewn with the wrecks of nations which have gained a little progressiveness at the cost of a great deal of hard manliness, and have thus prepared themselves for destruction as soon as the movements of the world gave a chance for it." -Walter Bagehot
Well, I wasn't the one who accused anyone of it. I gladly wear the labels 'beer snob', 'cigar snob' and so tool snob .. .eh, who gives a &*&*. It just means I don't like junk!
Folks, let's just agree that for some, old iron and fettling is the right choice and for some folks buying new from places like L-N is the right choice. There is no one right way to acquire tools. If this thread keeps smoldering the way it has been, the moderation staff will have to close it to further posting.
Thanks in advance for your kind cooperation and understanding.
Jim
SMC Moderator
Jim, you have got to be kidding me. I felt this thread was incredibly civil. Perhaps I'm just dense. Seriously.
To tail off of marcus' words:
I think there are woodworkers of every type. there are those who are more handy and like to restore the flea market find. there are those who want the top of the line, those who do both, those who dont woodwork but buy all the stuff, and on and on.
I am one those who woodworks secretly without hardly any planes or plane knowledge and I produce acceptable work in my own opinion. I tell you this though; I'm really tired of sanding.
I had 5 planes til the other day. only 3 of them usable at the moment. (im not a good fettler yet) I bought a LN 1/2 bronze shoulder plane and a LN iron low angle block plane (apron pocket plane). So now i have 7 planes.
I love those two LN planes! it only took me one second to tell myself that i should have bought one of these planes a long time ago. I tried the flea market thing and will continue to learn how to fettle and restore planes.
but for now, im trying to woodwork (profanity withheld). im tired of getting sidetracked by learning every other skill in the book that doesnt have anything to do with the project at hand. At first, i thought; oh, well i'll spend a few more minutes and flatten that or hone this or whatever. NO MORE!!! ive lost more time than i'd care to calculate. i want to woodwork. not metalwork, flatten, adjust or whatever.
without the plane knowledge, i was not able to tune my stanleys perfectly. so i have avoided using the 2 of them that i cant figure out just yet. i'll learn it one day, just not now though.
i'll write more later.
cheers,
dan
Last edited by Dan Barr; 02-07-2008 at 1:52 AM.
Building my own Legos!
Congragulations John on your purchase please let us know how it works out when you recieve the plane (pics!!!).
I just read this whole thread. Dang guys. I am happy there are companies like LN and LV around. There are some LN planes you can buy for less than the vintage versions (ever price a vintage 212, 85, 62, or chisel plane???) If you have the money I suggest buying a LN or LV.
Plane tuning is overrated and made too complicated. No.5 edge jointing and flattening.
I sharpened the blade to 30 deg with a microbevel.
Now its ready to go. Very versatile plane. Started out with rough piece of walnut I needed to prepare. First its jointing the edges since it is a short piece I just used the 5. Started out with thick shavings to get it straight.
Once it was straight, I set it for thin shavings to smooth it out.
Next take a slight bow out of the face by going diagonal to the grain. Removing the high spots.
This is how the board face looked at the start
And after.
There is a beauty to a fresh planed surface which is not available any other way. After finishing it may not make much difference, but it's just such a pleasure in the process.
Now the difficulty or importance of tuning a plane is another question which has already been covered here in gross detail. Clearly different people have different tolerances for working on planes, for spending money, for the quality of the plane as a collectors item or as a user. Also, vintage planes can be in great shape, almost ready to use, or they can be junkers which require a lot of work. I've had both.
Last edited by John Schreiber; 02-07-2008 at 9:54 AM.
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The cost is minimal and the benefits are real. Donate
I hate sanding too. Get a #4 1/2, either LN or Stanley or whatever you can afford, and use that instead of sanding. If you don't want to back bevel the blade and do a lot of figured work, get the high angle frog for the LN too, as it'll take care of that squirrely grain. Sanding is the devil.
Now that's and area where we TOTALLY agree. I hate sanding, but despite my use of hand planes and scrapers I can't totally eliminate sanding, particularly in between finish coats. However, what little sanding I do is all hand sanding, I haven't fired up my ROS in months. I don't miss the noisy, dust spitting monster.
"History is strewn with the wrecks of nations which have gained a little progressiveness at the cost of a great deal of hard manliness, and have thus prepared themselves for destruction as soon as the movements of the world gave a chance for it." -Walter Bagehot
Dan,
I'll echo what Marcus said, get a #4 (couple of Stanleys in the Creek Classifieds as an FYI). Mine happened to come from the factory in Maine, regardless do yourself the justice of at least giving the random orbit a break, or in my case almost retired. Many of my past projects are acceptable to me IMO that have sanded surfaces, but a smooth plane makes a nicer finished surface & is MUCH faster. My current hall table project went machine finish on all parts to prepped for finish in @ 30 minutes. Betting I'd have spend that much time on the top alone with the random orbit.... still to have to hand sand after raising the grain before finishing and some very light snading between coats of finish etc.....but thats the only sanding you'll catch me doing now.
The doldrums of sanding was my big push on "the slope", granted I'm very much a hybrid in terms of my work being tailed & unplugged but the ROS can stay unplugged.
Man this thread has legs...
Greg
PS- Marcus, I see you peeked out of the cave here into the GW forum?
Aw heck guys i don't have anything against the pricey very nice rolls royce tools, nothing at all. I own a couple, I just have a problem with the new guys only getting recommendations for them and not the more affordable stuff. I'm trying to give a little balance so people who can't afford the nice stuff can still enjoy working with hand tools. Having to defend my position vigorously pushes me into a situation where it looks like I hate anything over 20$, it ain't true.
It was an accident, I swear.
Don,
The hall table I mentioned earlier is my first presentable Neander prepped project as in all joinery & surface finishing. I pissed & moaned about having to use sandpaper at all & almost sprayed alcohol base dye so as to not sand after grain raising.... but there's just no way to avoid some sanding between coats building the finish per the schedule. Kinda is what it is......has to be done, so I'll shuddap and do it when I HAVE to.
Marcus,
I missed the beer snob earlier, never heard that before & was snot out the nose funny.
Greg