Sheetrocking ceiling

[Jason Roehl]

Agree with Jeff above, wholeheartedly. At least in this area, I have NEVER seen construction adhesive used with sheetrock, and I have been on a LOT of new construction and remodel sites. Also, while less common due to VOC requirements, there are cases of construction adhesives fueling an explosion on jobsites when their offgassing creates a highly flammable fuel/air mixture in a basement or poorly-ventilated part of the structure.

Keep this in mind, too: A 4'x8'x1/2" sheet of drywall weighs just over 50 lbs. A 4'x12'x5/8" sheet weighs about 105 lbs. For two people to lift and carry that sheet isn't that big of deal, but for each person to put 53 lbs over their heads is another story. What makes it even harder is if the two aren't used to doing it, so they will tend to "work against each other" as they're raising the sheet, making it seem even heavier, rather than working in practiced unison.

[Mel Fulks]

Well ,I had a ceiling fall down that had no adhesive. It had lots of nails . It was in a post ww2 bungalow and over the years the expansion and contraction loosens the nails. But ,yes ,I guess it is possible to get paid well before it falls.

[Jason Roehl]

When it comes to drywall, I'm in the "screws only" camp--not even nails to temporarily hold the sheets in place until a guy comes back through with the screw gun (how most drywallers do it that I've seen). As a painter, I've fixed many, many more nail pops than screw pops in existing construction. The worst is when the nail pops halfway underneath the tape and pushes it out along the edge of the tape.

[Jeff Erbele]

Pros make taping look easy. It isn't. If you hang your own sheets, alluded to earlier: Ceiling first, but don't screw the sheets at the walls, let them hang a bit. When you hang your wall sheets, horizontal of course, you will push the sheet up to the ceiling and the ceiling corner will be as straight as the edge of the wall sheet and not follow the up and downs of the bottom of the trusses.

+ 1 Ceiling First
+ 1 Allow a little "flap", natural flexibility around the perimeter; otherwise you will be fixing that '90 with the trowels
How much flap; how far from the wall to stop driving screws on the ceiling is a judgment call and based on the rafter stringers being on some plane.
* Avoid snapping a chalk line. Avoid dealing with (trying to cover / hide) any one of the rainbow of chalk colors as you prime and paint.
* Instead make a fine lead pencil mark on the wall, and as you screw the rock to ceiling, as you move towards the wall, the rock on the ceiling starts to bend upwards: STOP and leave the tail-ends flapping.

Taping is not particularly difficult; easy to learn but takes some practice and a coach instilling confidence would help at the start, along with some pointers. Its somewhat like learning to ride a bike; just keep trying, except you won't crash. It does require some strength, strong wrists, arms, upper extremities, hand-eye coordination and sense of balance. The technique only comes with a little practice, the speed and art comes with more practice and over time. If there are any real "screw-ups" they are very inexpensive and very fixable.

[Jeff Erbele]

When it comes to drywall, I'm in the "screws only" camp--not even nails to temporarily hold the sheets in place until a guy comes back through with the screw gun (how most drywallers do it that I've seen). As a painter, I've fixed many, many more nail pops than screw pops in existing construction. The worst is when the nail pops halfway underneath the tape and pushes it out along the edge of the tape.

+ 1 in the "screws only" camp.

The very first sheet rock job I attempted (with zero knowledge) was remodeling the basement of the first home I owned, (a royal messed up job by the original and previous home owner), one I gutted and re-did everything, drainage & sump, plumbing, electrical, insulation and drywall. Absolutely everything this guy touched was done wrong. It was a strong case for regulating & licensing hammers, screwdrivers, and applications for purchasing any building materials.

Guided by a very knowledgeable & experienced drywaller friend, he explained the options & pro's & con's of each; 1/2" vs 5/8", 8 ft vs 12 ft sheets, white vs green, fire code, primer & paint, fastener options nails vs screws and cost of each.

With sound advice and being very budget conscience, I decided sheet rock screws far outweighed nailing it; with perhaps one exception, that being corner bead but only if solidly nailed into 2 x 4 or 6 structural framing members.

Screws cost more than nails but the Pro's far outweigh the Con's.
Screws are stronger with more holding power and do not "Pop" (both into the same solid wood) (Air Nails or Screws missing wood, are equally null)

Dry wall fastener installation requires the skill of dimpling the paper without breaking it. Hammer & nail is somewhat more difficult to master. Further it is standard practice that nails should be in close proximity pairs for acceptable holding strength.
With a drywall screw gun, the penetration depth is adjustable and thus automatic & repeatable.

Screws cost more per each, but win, hands down in every other way.

[Jeff Erbele]

Jason,

Thanks for re-stating my viewpoint and adding to it.

I never considered the fire, health & safety aspects of adhesives but yours is a strong & valid point. Much of that stuff makes my gut retch, actually. Certainly we enjoy the benefits of Chemical Engineering daily but why use a product when it provides nothing needed.

Back when my buddy and I, rocked my 24 x 24 ceiling with 12 ft sheets of 5/8ths we pre-planned and verbally rehearsed every sheet before we moved it. Each of us (2 men) knew what we expected of the other with certainty, and we had a Plan-B and Plan-C in place in case our plans failed.
Transitioning 53 Lbs per person, to overhead, in the form of the sheet it is, in unison, placing it in the correct place, on the ceiling, at whatever height it is, exactly, and fastening it there is _ _ _ _ _ (select your answer); mine is:
some what of a feat and damn hard work; challenging to say the least; but no where impossible.
Fun? No. ...Well maybe after the last sheet is done and maybe toast your favorite beverage
Fun? No ...more of a sense of accomplishment and that was the original motivator; wanting rock on the ceiling, as one step to creating my work shop.

All of it in regards to the O.P., unless you know what you are doing and have a plan and have good help, all strapping stong young men, and/or a lift, you may want to consider seeking a drywaller that has those things.

~ ~ ~
Enough on the topic of gluing sheet rock. It was a random comment, perhaps without much thought or backing. So what, forgive and forget and move on to better and more productive things. Lets refocus on the OP.

[Julie Moriarty]

When we were building our house in 1986, the guys who install sheetrock for a living told me minimum 5/8" for 24" spans and to use adhesive on all ceilings. I checked with many guys on the jobsites I worked on and everyone agreed. That's what we did. 27 years later we have had no problem with the sheetrock or the joints. The idea of not using adhesive because you might one day decide to remove it seems odd to me. Ceilings with drywall on them rarely need the rock to be removed unless it was installed improperly in the first place. But I can see wanting access to what's in the basement ceiling. If you know you're going to need access to it, why not go with a drop ceiling?

One thing about trusses I learned while building the house is there is an additional fire hazard that needs to be considered. For our house we had to rock both sides of a truss with 5/8" sheetrock every 6' as a fire stop and all MEPs that passed through had to be fire sealed. Makes sense when you think how much a fire started in the joist space could spread without that and how much damage could be done before you realized there was a fire. Our trusses are 24" high and we put all the MEPs in that space, even in the basement. The fire stopping was a pain but gives some peace of mind.

[Michael Zerance]

To answer the original poster's question: You may screw directly to the joist. However, I would verify that they are all in plane relative to each other by spanning the joists (perpendicularly) with a long level or string. One joist out of plane will be enough to make a nasty dip that would be noticeable. A 1/4" variation isn't going to matter but I have seen some joists/trusses with warped lumber that were off by as much as an inch. These areas should be shimmed or furred where needed.

Some other points addressed in this thread:

Adhesive is not required and is unnecessary if the drywall is being screwed.

For 5/8" drywall, I use 1 5/8" drywall screws.

A lift costs $25 - $30 a day to rent and I would never consider doing a ceiling without one (even an 8' ceiling).

The depth of the screw is important, especially on a ceiling! I use drywall dimpler bits for smaller jobs or (if the job is big enough) I will get out the drywall screw gun. It is near impossible to set the proper depth, consistently, by feel with a drill and regular phillips bit.

[Mel Fulks]

Mfg. Specs I read (because of this thread) say use adhesive. If it's not needed on a ceiling WHY is it routinely used on WALLS ? If it's because no one likes to get the adhesive in their hair ...wear a hat!

[Michael Zerance]

Mfg. Specs I read (because of this thread) say use adhesive. If it's not needed on a ceiling WHY is it routinely used on WALLS ? If it's because no one likes to get the adhesive in their hair ...wear a hat!

I have no reason to doubt what you say, but do you have a link? I would like to read more into this.

The only installations that I am aware of, that may require adhesive, is when installing two layers of drywall or when installing over an existing flat surface.

Adhesive would give more strength and allow you to use less fasteners but building codes may not approve of a wider fastener spacing anyway.

If using a moisture barrier or faced insulation stapled to the face of the studs, adhesive is not an option.

It's not laziness. It's an additional process that requires additional material and time to implement for very little gain. I just don't see the benefit of adhesive if the drywall is properly fastened with screws spaced 6"-8" apart.

[Mel Fulks]

Michael , I was just citing info googled from mfg web site. Don't know how to do links, but if you don't quickly find it let me
know and I will look again. I learn something here every day,but I can't make sense out of using the glue on walls and not ceilings. Engineers are familiar with the reality that structures can be built inadequately and yet take some time to fail. A well known case is the hotel that had some floors collapse that were open and suspended by steel rods. The place had been open for some time before the gruesome catastrophe.

[Michael Zerance]

Michael , I was just citing info googled from mfg web site. Don't know how to do links, but if you don't quickly find it let me
know and I will look again. I learn something here every day,but I can't make sense out of using the glue on walls and not ceilings. Engineers are familiar with the reality that structures can be built inadequately and yet take some time to fail. A well known case is the hotel that had some floors collapse that were open and suspended by steel rods. The place had been open for some time before the gruesome catastrophe.

To post links, simply copy the text in the address bar of the page you are on then paste it where ever you desire.

According to National Gypsum website: http://www.nationalgypsum.com/resour...pWallBoard.pdf

"Gypsum board can be installed to both metal and wood framing using nails, screws or adhesives in combination with nails or screws. In many

instances, the application will dictate which fastening method is appropriate."

Of course you can over-engineer, over-think, and over-build anything...I usually do, but I don't normally use adhesive on drywall (walls or ceilings). However, my employee (from upstate NY) stated that he has frequently used adhesive in the past. Maybe it is a regional thing; it seems that southerners don't use it and those from up north do. I have worked with drywall crews in the Pacific northwest and they do not use adhesive either.

I guess my previous statement should be revised..."Adhesive is not required and, in my opinion, is unnecessary if the drywall is being screwed." It can't hurt but I don't think the time and material cost is worth the effort. If a customer requested it, of course I would do it, but I would charge a little more for it also.

[phil harold]

On a ceiling I like to double screw the field 2 screws 3-4 inches apart ever 16" or so
This helps suck the sheet roc up to the joists/truss

glue is great for walls screw the edges and glue, no screws, in the field makes finishing easier

[Mel Fulks]

Doing more googling I see mfg install instructions vary widely. Just saw some by national gypsum that say to use screws or NAILS, and don't mention adhesive. Having seen one fall, I'm surprised as the nail failures are well known around here.
Ceiling had been up about 35 years and showed no damage before falling.

[george newbury]

On a ceiling I like to double screw the field 2 screws 3-4 inches apart ever 16" or so
This helps suck the sheet roc up to the joists/truss

Reads like a good idea. I'm slowly repairing a 3' x 6' section of 40+ year old kitchen ceiling because of water damage from above. There are "good" sections where the previous ceiling had slowly pulled the nails out and there is about a half-inch sag from the joists in places. Edge matching is a pain.