Looking for feedback before I buy an Avid CNC

[Malcolm Schweizer]

How old is the machine? 12K seems pretty steep for a used machine considering new is 15K for a 5x10. Unless the machine was lightly used by a hobbyist, I’d expect less than 10K. Please note, you can move and industrial machine no problem, turn it on and hit the ground running, but moving that AVID will require you to redo many setup steps, re-tramming, etc. Same goes for when you resize the bed.

I do think AVID is a good idea for you considering you don’t know if CNC will be a viable addition to your business. While lighter duty, they are well thought out. If it does take off, then you can move to something more capable like CAMaster, ShopSabre, etc. For commercial use, AVID is just too light duty and 4HP is a little low for maximizing machine time and being able to run fast.

It is a year old, and he has used it very little. Landed cost new was $16k with options. It has been in a climate controlled garage/workshop. He has used it once or twice a month. He did some slab flattening and cut some cabinet parts for his own home, as well as playing around with making shop jigs. The price includes lots of tooling, computer, monitor, software, etc. It's plug and play. There is a good bit of tooling included. He wanted to grow his home business, and he just hasn't used it like he thought he would. He is selling to pay for a sliding saw that he will get more use out of. I would classify him as a hobbyist transitioning to a part-time professional. He does amazing work- I'm just saying as far as time spent- woodworking is a side gig for him out of his garage.

I am aware that it's a little low powered for a production machine, but right now we really wouldn't be pushing it very hard. Primarily we will be cutting simple cabinet parts and I want to experiment with art pieces like parametric wall hangings. Cabinets are not our main business, but they pay the bills, and when your biggest customer wants cabinets- you make cabinets. Part of the justification for this machine is that we are going to use it to cut hinge holes and shelf pins and not buy a hinge and line boring machine. I really don't mind if I have to wait for parts to be cut, i.e. slower cutting speeds and not cutting full depth in one pass. For me, just throwing a sheet on and having the machine do the work allows me to work on other projects, no matter how fast or slow the machine cuts. Again, cabinets aren't the bulk of our business, but I need to speed up that process. I also am working with some restaurant groups and expect to be making solid table tops and flatten them on the CNC as well as cut any round or odd-shaped tables.

I see it as also opening up opportunities for making shop jigs. For example- building a serpentine cabinet with curved doors. I need jigs to laminate the doors. Cut those jigs on the CNC. Cut the top on the CNC. I can still build a beautiful cabinet and it will still be hand made, but save a lot of time on building the jigs.

I also want to get a 3D scanner, as I mentioned earlier, and use it to replicate carvings and rosettes in old homes. (Not extremely complicated carvings- just matching old trim and adornments.) Arched door parts also come to mind. I have an arched door project in the works, and either cutting parts or making jigs on the CNC would be worthwhile.

I see it paying for itself rather quickly if I get the Avid. Getting a more production capable machine would require me to work the CNC more, i.e. maybe start doing signs and other CNC specific things to justify the cost, and I'm not trying to become a CNC shop- just improve the process for what I'm doing now.

Sorry for rambling- just trying to give an idea of use and expectations. I see it as making me more productive and more competitive. I feel like it's a safe gamble with the Avid- I can at least make that much back. If I decide I should have gone bigger, I can sell it and put that money towards a more robust machine. Still kicking myself for passing on the one that sold at auction. (sigh)

[Jim Becker]

Only a year old with light usage is a pretty nice thing for a pre-owned machine.

When you do get to the 3D scanning thing, just be prepared for a big learning curve because once the scan is made, there is a "yuge" amount of cleanup required to have a usable 3D model and there's a big learning curve with that. I've used one of the best resources in the business for scanning and even then, there were some surprises that had to be dealt with. (nearly hidden artifacts that only came to light when actually cutting the model)

[Michael Burnside]

A year old with moderate use doesn't sound too bad. If you're happy and the seller is happy with the price, then it doesn't sound too terrible. Good luck with the purchase, be sure to reply back letting us know what you've decided and looking forward to posts on the CNC forum. Lots of good resources here.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

Thanks for all the help and sharing of wisdom. I went with the Avid, because it’s local, it does what I need, it’s less than half a more robust new one, and it left me $$ to buy another toy…. Wait for it…. Wait for it…. A 3D Scanner. EinScan Pro+ 3D scanner that I stole (not literally) for way less than retail. I already have two clients lined up that want me to replicate some carved rosettes and embellishments in two historic homes.

The CNC included software and licenses, computer, tooling, and the guy is helping me move and set up in my shop.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

…. And of course this morning, after spending $$$ last night on new equipment, we burned up the motor in the jointer!

[Michael Burnside]

Thanks for all the help and sharing of wisdom. I went with the Avid, because it’s local, it does what I need, it’s less than half a more robust new one, and it left me $$ to buy another toy…. Wait for it…. Wait for it…. A 3D Scanner. EinScan Pro+ 3D scanner that I stole (not literally) for way less than retail. I already have two clients lined up that want me to replicate some carved rosettes and embellishments in two historic homes.

The CNC included software and licenses, computer, tooling, and the guy is helping me move and set up in my shop.

Awesome, good luck in your efforts. Two pieces of advice for setting up the AVID, which I've assisted with a couple of times:

1) Check that the liner rail assemblies are parallel to the table by using a precision level and micrometer. If you use their "rail alignment jig" instead, MEASURE them! Both AVIDs I've assisted on the two pieces were 0.005-0.008" off which means the entire rail wouldn't be parallel to the table as it moved from front to back or side to side.
2) Be sure to re-tram the spindle and do it just before you surface a spoilboard.

For (1) I realize they will already be locked into place, but you need to remeasure them and possibly move them if the original owner didn't check the jigs before setting up. This is also needed on the z-axis.

Good luck!

[Jim Becker]

I agree with Michael...take all the time necessary to get that machine perfectly level and square before you even think about running it. It will make a "yuge" difference in performance and reduce the number of "little frustrations" that will get in the way of what is already an impressive learning curve for a new-to-CNC user. This is really one of the single "downsides" to a modular machine but with care, it's not a mountain, only a tiny rise to climb before you start making a mess.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

Tanks again for the advice. We are going to move it in one piece on a flatbed, but I will ensure everything was and is square and level.

good news: the jointer just needed a thermal reset. Working again. 11” torrified ash was a bit of a workout for it.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

Hello all:

Just posting an update on the Avid CNC. It's installed and running, and I love this thing!!! I am so far very pleased that I went this route as far as cost and what I got for the money. I think I mentioned, but I have worked in places with Laguna Smart CNC's and with a massive mega-$$$$ industrial CNC for which I cannot remember the manufacturer. It was a six-figure machine. Of course the Avid CNC isn't as massive and heavy, but it is extremely accurate. I am making a lot of jigs with it, and I check those jigs by laying them on top of the scale drawing that I used for measurements, and it's exact. The machine does vibrate some, but it's the whole unit that vibrates- not the head versus the bed. The gantry stays accurate to the bed. The legs between the bed and the ground are what vibrate. No big deal for what I'm doing. It will be perfect for cabinet cutting, making jigs, and other simple things for which I intend to use it.

You may remember, I bought this used, and the previous owner helped me get it going, and we have actually become good friends. He made cabinets and furniture with it on a hobby scale, and he said he had asked about this machine before he bought it, and people said it was not heavily built. We both agreed that maybe it isn't as heavily built as a larger steel-framed machine, but it's just as accurate from everything we have seen in using it. When I say accurate, I mean that on a jig 80 inches long, making multiple jigs (door hinge jigs) every one of them came out exactly the same, and exactly on measurement. I stacked the jigs up on top of each other and there was no variance at all. (I made multiple jigs so multiple people can be routing hinges- we are doing a hotel project with 64 rooms.) That's just one example, but a good example of accuracy and repeatability.

Actually, the only issues I've had were all operator error!!!! Did I just admit to that? No. No, I didn't. I never make mistakes. I also never lie.

My table has something similar to a Festool table with 20mm holes for putting cam hold-downs into. That was done by the prior owner. I am going to put T-Track, as I like that a lot better. I screw things down to the MDF to hold them much of the time. That's what we did on the Laguna CNC's I mentioned earlier, as they did not have vacuum hold-downs. Oh, and I did have plans to add a vacuum hold-down system, but right now I'm not going to do that. It works fine as is, and I'm done with running wires and hoses for a while.

IMG_0172.jpg

[John TenEyck]

Glad to see you have your machine up and running, Malcolm, and it's meeting your expectations. It truly is amazing what these machines can do. I have a much lighter duty machine even than yours. I have never found an instance where it has not meet my expectations for accuracy or repeatability. I just can't push it as hard as an industrial machine, but for me that's not a big deal.

Anyway, to my point. If your machine is vibrating, and it annoys you, you could look to put a stout shelf on the cross members and load some sandbags on it. Mass is your friend for damping vibration.

John

[Malcolm Schweizer]

Glad to see you have your machine up and running, Malcolm, and it's meeting your expectations. It truly is amazing what these machines can do. I have a much lighter duty machine even than yours. I have never found an instance where it has not meet my expectations for accuracy or repeatability. I just can't push it as hard as an industrial machine, but for me that's not a big deal.

Anyway, to my point. If your machine is vibrating, and it annoys you, you could look to put a stout shelf on the cross members and load some sandbags on it. Mass is your friend for damping vibration.

John

It isn’t a lot of vibration- mainly when it does a quick z axis shift I notice it. Right now I’m good with it- just thought I would mention it because I did notice it, but as long as the gantry doesn’t move relative to the bed, it has no real impact on the outcome.

[Jim Becker]

It isn’t a lot of vibration- mainly when it does a quick z axis shift I notice it. Right now I’m good with it- just thought I would mention it because I did notice it, but as long as the gantry doesn’t move relative to the bed, it has no real impact on the outcome.

That movement is from the inertia of the gantry and spindle head's mass moving and then stopping. That's where the heavier welded machines come into play since their rapids are a lot mo' rapid than the small machines. For those of us who do "non industrial" work, it's not a big compromise, IMHO. I'd want a heavier, more robust machine for true production, however, because all that movement that's constant will most certainly start to affect machine accuracy when, not if, fasteners start to "self adjust" on a bolt-together design. So if you get the business to where you are really doing more production stuff, an upgrade conversation will likely become reality. "Right tool for the actualy job", as it were. In the meantime, AVID's machines are amazingly adaptive and well designed ... and affordable.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

That movement is from the inertia of the gantry and spindle head's mass moving and then stopping. That's where the heavier welded machines come into play since their rapids are a lot mo' rapid than the small machines. For those of us who do "non industrial" work, it's not a big compromise, IMHO. I'd want a heavier, more robust machine for true production, however, because all that movement that's constant will most certainly start to affect machine accuracy when, not if, fasteners start to "self adjust" on a bolt-together design. So if you get the business to where you are really doing more production stuff, an upgrade conversation will likely become reality. "Right tool for the actualy job", as it were. In the meantime, AVID's machines are amazingly adaptive and well designed ... and affordable.

All good points. I am still glad I went with this machine. The plan is grow the business before upgrading. The vibration is mostly on the Z axis movement when doing tabs, so it goes up and down for the tabs.