Rob Cosman Video on cutting perfect dovetails first attempt

[Ben Ellenberger]

I’m another vote for the Veritas dovetail saw. Thats what I’ve got and have never felt the need to get a different one.

Also, I just started that Rob Cosman video. It is an hour long. I jumped ahead to 26 minutes in. He had the tail board marked out, the saw was in his hand, but he hadn’t cut anything yet. I don’t know what his full technique is, but I can tell you it is more complicated than it needs to be.

[Mike Henderson]

The Cosman dovetail saw is very expensive. I have the Veritas dovetail saw but prefer the Lie Nielsen dovetail saw (which I also have), both of which are a lot less expensive than the Cosman.

I learned how to do dovetails from a book - forgot the name just now. To cut good dovetails, you need to master the various processes and be accurate. And practice, practice, practice.

I started cutting dovetails with a Japanese dozuki saw. It's much slower than a western dovetail saw, but it's fairly low priced and you can get the job done with it.

There's no magic.

Mike

[Christopher Charles]

Best dovetailing advice I encountered was the Gary Rogowski 5-minute dovetail. Actually might have been the best bit of woodworking advice I ever got from the interwebs-took a lot of the pressure out the process for me and made it all a bit less precious. Which made it easier to do it all better.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_rb9jMrXs0

[Tony Wilkins]

Mike, was that book Ian Kirby’s? One of the phrases you used reminds me of it.

[steven c newman]

Ever watch Roy Underhill do dovetails? Look it up, sometime....

[Graham Haydon]

Nothing wrong with following Rob's tutorials if they help you get what you want.

If you feel you must buy his products to succeed he has been effective as a salesman.

If you have the money and want to support him and his efforts go ahead, he's not the devil.

But know that dovetails were made without issue by professional and amateur alike without issue and without all the gimmicks.

[Jim Koepke]

I posted about a topic where my reference to YouTube channels was to point out examples of people with very large plane collections, not to have a discussion of the merits of different woodworkers who use their YouTube channels as an income source. However, it did generate some interesting discussion related to the quality of the videos and accuracy of the information being presented.
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Before I buy his saw and the other tools he recommended, I figure some of you may have thoughts on these particular videos. Thanks!

You never know which way a post on SMC will ramble.

As far as videos go, when there is time they will be watched. Even the teachers who don't give me warm fuzzy feelings may be able to implant a kernel or two of knowledge in my brain.

Like many others who have replied my advice is to go with the Veritas Dovetail Saw. I have a few very nice dovetail saws plus a few that can do the job. A 14 ppi Veritas Dovetail Saw was purchased as a gift for my grandson. The saw really isn't my style, but it worked so well it got me to purchase a 20 ppi version for myself. Of course being the frugal type I waited for the seconds sale.

Two unique ideas that Mr. Cossman has, and actually no one has repeated, is the offset guide and the graduated saw.

On one of my first visit to a Lie-Nielsen Tool Event Glenn Drake was demonstrating his new fangled dovetail cutting system.

> https://www.popularwoodworking.com/w...-Technique.pdf

His came with a set of feeler gauges for different saw plates. He was also selling a kerf starter which also was available in different thicknesses for various saw plates.

The offset compensates for the common error of sawing through the line. When the pins are marked from the tails or tails are marked from pins the line made when the pieces are aligned is outside of the waste to be removed.

I do not know who came up with the system first.

Here is another idea, source of which is unknown.

Pin Marking Set Up.jpg

A straight edged piece of wood is clamped to the base line to help align to the pin board when marking the pins. If the pins are cut first this could help to hold the tail board in alignment with the tail board for marking.

Some will use blue tape across the base line for the same reason. Some will take a few passes with a rabbet plane. Many ways to get the same result.

My first dovetails were cut when I didn't know anyone to teach me and the internet was not as developed as it is today.

One of the things that did help me was to warm up with the Gary Rogowski 5-minute dovetail routine. Though I took it a bit further at the start.

I would take a couple of 1X4s, about a foot or two long, and dovetail them together. Then I would look at the joint and try to figure out my errors and how to correct them. Then they would be cut off and done again.

There is a good reason to do a few practice joints. This lets you cut a couple joints pins first then do a couple joints tails first. Then do it the way that feels most natural or comfortable to you. It is helpful to be able to cut them either way.

jtk

[Tom M King]

The most important thing about a dovetail saw is that it's sharp, and you can cut to a line easily with it. Almost all of my backsaws are older ones. The one I use most, and the one I choose for dovetails is an old Disston. The handle on that one is a little loose. It has several layers of paper between the blade and the handle so I could tighten the nuts good enough so it doesn't wiggle much. I always cut to any line with any saw.

Practice cutting to lines, and learn how to sharpen the saw. It's not as hard as it may seem to do either. Once you can do that, dovetails or anything else you need to cut is no problem.

I don't have any pictures or video, but here's the way I cut some handrail posts a couple of days ago.

Sorry, I can't right the pic this morning. I had to drive the posts in the ground because I didn't have any concrete, and couldn't go get any. I drove them in the ground so I could build the railings without having to wait to be able to go get bags of concrete.

[steven c newman]

Thing I found out about doing pins first...is it makes you mark in the waste side of the tails....all I then have to do, is just leave that line....And cut on the waste side....Nothing real fancy, just a freshly sharpened No. 2 pencil, to trace around the pins. Then just stay on the waste side of the lines...

One other tip I might offer....when you go to driving the two parts together with your hammer or mallet...have a block of hardwood scrap between the wood parts and the driving tool...Another thing for those that do the half blind version....go out and buy a decent, stiff bladed putty knife...the ones that aren't made to bend.....you then file or grind that stiff blade down, to match the kerf of your dovetail saw.....make sure it is still flat...This is your "Kerf Chisel" to follow the angled saw kerfs. It will reach down into the back corners where a saw can't go. The reason you want it flat...as any wedge shape will run the risk of splitting the wood. Also, you use the side of the tool, not the front edge...saves the handle, makes it easier to remove from the kerf.


BTW: The putty knife I use? Red Devil 1401....and mine has wood handles....

[mike stenson]

I remember watching his hand cut dovetails video, that lie-nielsen put out, in the 90s. There's really not a lot that has changed.The "gimmicks" are simply using tape as a ledge (like the 140 trick), offsetting the tail board the width of the saw plate (so you don't have to leave the line), and using a saw blade to mark the cut line. Not that complicated, and it'd be an easy way to make tight fitting dovetails. For those concerned about him selling his wares, he even says you can use any saws you like.

The dovetails on most of my shop furniture look like the dovetails in the back of antique drawers I've seen. Somewhat sloppy. When it counts, I saw square practice lines to get warmed up.

[Phil Gaudio]

Step 1: Learn how to cut accurately with a DT saw: straight and true. When you can consistently cut to a line and square to the face of the board, the rest of the mechanics of dove-tailing are relatively easy. Its accurate sawing that is the challenge. I keep a practice board in my front vise and make some practice cuts just about every time I visit my shop. Do this for a while and you will see your sawing ability improve. There are lots of other tricks but sawing accurately is step 1.

[Joel Gelman]

Many thanks. On the Dovetail saw the way I think about purchases is to take money out of the equation and imagine all all the same price. I want to figure out what is the best without value a component. Then, if something more expensive is best, I think if I want to spend the money. If the best happens to be less expensive, that is the easiest decision. In this case, seems like enough like the less expensive Veritas 14 that I can get at Woodcraft over the Cosman, that I will get the Veritas.

On the fret saw, the Cosman offering is under $50. I noted that on other threads people like the Lee Valley KC which in this case is more expensive than the Cosman offering.

I will try to figure that one out, make sure I have sharp chisels, and try different methods. I thought this video was interesting given that the author promoted this as a fairly foolproof method and was curious what would be the critique.

[Jim Koepke]

On the fret saw, the Cosman offering is under $50. I noted that on other threads people like the Lee Valley KC which in this case is more expensive than the Cosman offering.

A very similar fret saw is even less expensive > https://www.amazon.com/GERMAN-STYLE-...df_B07SR5JCH8/ < It doesn't have the fancy handle.

Two of my fret saws are similar to this and do work well. My favorite is the KC because of the deeper throat, easier set up and being able to turn the blade holder. Mine was purchased before they started selling the ability to turn 180º. The need 180º for this feature isn't as strong as my desire to purchase one.

If you have a lapidary supply (rock shop) or jeweler's supply in your area you could likely find fret saws locally.

Joel, if you are in the Portland, OR area you would be welcome to come by and test drive the various options.

jtk

[Derek Cohen]

Joel, the “best dovetail saw” does not really exist. There are some amazing dovetail saws one can purchase, and I will include Rob Cosman’s in this mix since you raised it originally. However, all the available saw will differ in some components, and these will affect not only the way they are used, but where they are best used.

My favourite dovetail saw is one I made. I have made several, but this one has a 0.15” plate (which is thinner than the average at 0.20”), and the teeth are filed with 5 degrees of rake and 17 tpi. I like the hang angle and the 9” plate length. It is great for sawing hard, somewhat brittle Jarrah and Hard Maple.

Note in this example I have referred to a number of features. These features vary from saw-to-saw. What this means is that it is likely that dovetail saws will differ from one manufacturer to another. In my opinion, the Lie Nielsen is a very good saw, but better suited to a reasonably experienced sawyer as the rake is set high. This makes a more aggressive saw cut. The Veritas has a relaxed rake, which makes starting and sawing slower but more controlled. The Gramercy is another excellent saw, thinner plate and higher tooth count, but the thin handle has a higher hang and many do not get along with it.

The trouble is that there are not many who can offer a comparison of all the saws. First you have to own them as it takes a while to get to know them, and then there are different levels of ability, which affect judgement. I ended up withseveral dovetail saws, partly because I enjoy sawing joinery, and partly because they offer choices for different woods.

Give up on the idea that you can buy once. Your preference will change over time. My earlier recommendation of a Veritas 14 tpi stands. It is relatively inexpensive, but that does not mean that it offers less than, say, a LN. It is a very good saw. Later you may not even wish to buy another.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[William Fretwell]

Joel the professional Dozuki saw at Lee Valley for much less $ than the other saws is a great dovetail saw. Thin plate, light for control. I have 3 other dovetail saws but the thin kerf of the Japanese saw is wonderful. It will cut for a very, very, long time before you even think about sharpening. A feather file is needed.