Taper in hand saws and panel saw plates - how much difference does it make?

[Jim Matthews]

The Orsa is fine steel, sold cheap.

I use one for cutting down plywood - it still has all its teeth.

[Warren Mickley]

I have used tapered Disston saws exclusively since 1956. I have never owned any type of power saw. If I try a saw with no taper, I can feel the stiffness right away. The small bit of extra flexibility of a tapered saw gives an added ability to make course corrections. It is subtle but noticeable. Some might brag that they cannot notice this.

[Jim Koepke]

It is subtle but noticeable. Some might brag that they cannot notice this.

Many of us with more than a few saws, can likely feel the difference between one saw and the other. If all saws felt the same in use, how would we ever be able to convincingly tell our spouses we have been thinking about getting another saw?

jtk

[Tom M King]

A powered saw is fine when the mating parts are straight, square, and perfect. When you need to fit one part to another that might not quite be perfect, the handsaw gives the fine control needed. I use powered saws all the time, but only when that is the best choice.

For that particular handrail, the stringers were old, and the slope of one side didn't exactly match the other side, but with all the complicated angles, I didn't want people to look through one side to the other, and get a confusing view, so the second side first parts were just held in place, and sighted to the ones already set on the other side. There were also a lot of pieces, and my helpers primed the ends of each piece after I cut it. By the time I was to the end with one run of four pieces, the primer was dry enough to nail in place as I worked my way down marking, and cutting the next set of pieces.

Yes, the marking is important. I mainly use a sharp no. 4 pencil, and I'm particular about my pencils too. When sawing to the line, you either need to leave the line, or take the line. I rarely use a marking knife because it's harder for me to be precise enough when I need to leave the line.

Apologies to those tired of seeing this picture. I have so many pictures, that it takes a long time to find a particular one that I'm looking for. This is a picture of siding that I've posted before because I have it stored herewindows4 005 (800x600).jpg. It was cut with a handsaw. You can move any piece with a fingertip, since it's hanging on nails with predrilled holes. This allows it to move with humidity changes, with little chance of stress, and splitting. It was marked with a preacher, and is off the saw. Yes, every board on the house is like this.

This is too hard to do with a power saw. Not a sheet of paper can be slid into any joint, but you can still move each piece. If you cut one tight, to force it in to get a good fit, you open up the one below. This is the type of difference I expect between the handsaw, and a powered saw of any type.

[Tom M King]

The handrail pieces were marked one off the last, mating parts.

The siding is done in the more typical, traditional finish carpentry method of marking with a preacher, which is usually made for a particular job. It takes the error away, and eliminates the extra step of measuring, and transferring. A marking knife could work here, since you take the line. Paint is on that one because any time the siding is going to be painted, we paint each end, and it's mating part, as it's put up. I must have gotten out of sequence when I got paint on that preacher. I don't like to use caulking on the outside of a house.

One is tight, so it will stay in place if one hand is needed to hold onto something while marking with the other hand. The other is marked "loose", but it's not real loose. It just slides easily.

[Tom M King]

This is the 1828 house I made those siding preachers for. It needed all the siding replaced. This was before it was completely finished, but I don't have other pictures at hand.

[Tom M King]

I found a picture of that handrail balustrade during construction. I didn't measure the difference in slope from one side to the other of the stringers, but we decided it was not worth the trouble to "fix" them. The main pieces on the second side were positioned by sighting the other side. As the pieces got smaller, they were marked in place with a gauge.

edited to add: You can see that the bottom section is not quite right. It's been a few years since we built this, so I'm forgetting some of the details. I probably changed the plan to sighting after noticing that section didn't look good when looking through, but probably decided to leave it, since those large Boxwoods mostly hid that section anyway. That would have been a difficult change if they had been made in a shop, whereas a handsaw allowed me to go with the flow of the job.

[Jonathan Elliott]

Tom,

Thanks so much for the great explanation and examples. I realized after I posted that I should probably start a new thread (which I did) but I appreciate you responding. I can certainly understand and appreciate the freedom a handsaw gives one in the hand of an experienced sawyer. I look forward to gaining that confidence and freedom. Thanks again for sharing your experiences.

Jonathan

[Tom M King]

I wish I could move these posts, that I put in the wrong thread, but maybe they're almost self-explanatory.

[Mel Fulks]

Tom ,that pic of the siding shows neat work. But I wish you would give us more detail on that exact fit. Don't they shrink some
length wise ? Do you use caulk anywhere on those old houses?

[Tom M King]

If the grain is straight, they don't shrink lengthwise to amount to anything. If you look at a board, and the grain goes back, and forth like a dog's hind leg, that board will move some lengthwise, so I try to avoid those. If you force a siding board in tight, that's one that will probably develop splits on the ends.

The only time we use caulking on the outside is to fill up a hole, like an empty nail hole. That 1828 house doesn't have caulking on the outside, nor inside either. The outside was done in 2009, hasn't had the Duration repainted, is pressure washed every year, or so, and still looks like new. We do always paint any board ends before being put up, which includes priming the whole face of each board before even starting the install.

That unfinished Cypress siding is under a porch, that goes all the way around that particular house. The picture is after 25, or 6, years of age on that house. It was one of the spec houses that I built one of for each of 33 years. I'll see if I can find a picture, and come back to edit.

edited to add picture: This house also has a copper roof. The only picture I have is of the road side of the house. The lake side has one large dormer that's over a large cathedral ceiling, but I don't know, right off, where I have a picture of that. When I built this house in 1991, I wanted to do a standing seam roof, since I had been wanting to do one. That was before the snap down stuff that we use now was available. When I was pricing rolls of roofing metal, that year, copper was 90 cents a pound. All the copper on that roof cost $6300. At the time, break even for using copper instead of Terne coated, was the second time the Terne had to be repainted. Lately, the last time I looked, it's $10 a pound. Sorry, I don't have a better picture of that house.

I wouldn't use clapboard siding not painted out in the weather. I do use unfinished wood for siding, but when I do, it's vertical board on board, and most of the time White Oak.

Figuring that all the other builders had gotten smarter than me, I didn't want a house on the market in coming 2008, so I built my last new house in 2007, and went full time working on old houses.

[Mel Fulks]

Tom ,thanks for kind and quick detail.

[Frederick Skelly]

For that particular handrail, the stringers were old, and the slope of one side didn't exactly match the other side, but with all the complicated angles, I didn't want people to look through one side to the other, and get a confusing view, so the second side first parts were just held in place, and sighted to the ones already set on the other side.

Now THAT is pride in one's work!

I always enjoy reading your posts about your restoration work, Tom.

Fred