Does anyone still make 16" or 18" planers?

[Brian Weick]

Stay away from static converters......http://www.3phasepower.org/staticphaseconverters.htm


VFD or RPC.....


B,

[Michael W. Clark]

For 3hp, a VFD may be the most economical for 3ph power. Once you get into 5hp, the VFD price goes up significantly. I have a static phase converter (SPC) and have had no troubles with a 5hp tablesaw for 8 years. Sometimes it is quircky with the capacitors having to recharge during frequent start/stops, but no problems other than that. An RPC would be a step up, but a phase perfect would be a step up from that. I would probably go the VFD route if staying with 3hp/20A. When/if you get a larger space it may have 3ph power already or you may want an even larger 3ph machine. Sounds like you are doing large panels, so a wide belt sander or large shaper may be in your future and could require a 10hp RPC. You could keep the VFD for your planer or put it on a bandsaw in the future where the variable speed would be of benefit.

How about that, I just justified a VFD, wide belt sander, rental space, and a 10hp RPC.

[Matt Day]

You said you've got one 220V outlet and move it from machine to machine and it's kind of a pain. I've only got one 220V circuit, but I added boxes onto it and connected all my machines to it so I don't need to switch it all the time. I'm quite sure it's not a legal install in the first place, but I never have more than one machine on at a time since I'm a one man shop.

[howard s hanger]

I did the same thing recently. I had one 220 outlet so I added another one underneath by tying into the first one. It was very easy. Two hots and a ground, that's it. I built a 220 extension cord for both of my Hammers. I never have more than one running at a time so it's not a problem. The extension cords are 20' of 12 gauge 3 wire so they cost about $60 each with the ends!

[Keith Hankins]

Ok first the 3 phase route is the way to go IMO. The concept it pretty simple however if you are going to go rotary (an idler motor to create the 3rd phase) then remember you need to go bigger than your largest tools. For example, I put in a 10 hp RPC to drive at max a 7.5 hp tool The reason is you loose tom umph (sorry for the laymens terms) by that motor creating that third phase. There are many ways to do the 3 phase converter. I was new to the game so I wanted a total supportable solution. I went with american rotary and bought a package deal with panel and a baldor new motor as the idler motor (generates the third phase) and got a warantee. There are plans out there to build the panel and you can pick up any used motor to act as the idler motor. In hind site I could have saved some $$ by doing it that way. For that matter you can buy the capacitors and controllers and build it yourself if you are inclinded. If you think you only are going to do one or two tools 3 phase static is the way to go. However not all SPC's are created equal. If you want to go that route, I'd suggest you go over to http://www.owwm.org/ Register and go do some research. I went through this and learned a lot and those guys are an unreal amount of knowledge. In the classifieds you will find rehabbed tools for good prices. I see 12" jointers (battleships) for a song, big planers the old powermatic's delta's and an ocassional northfield. They are worth it. Go learn about 3 phase tools from the guys that do it. I spent a year waiting for the right tool to come along and have not regretted it. Don't get me wrong, I have a griz TS, BS, and 12" jointer, but if I knew then what i know now, I'd bought better tools and at less $$. You just need to be patient and ready to jump at an opportunity. I'm similar to you but I do have two 220 lines. One for all my 220 tools (outlets in series) and one for my dust collector. Since I added the RPC, I have a line now for my 3 phase tools which is two now. I added a walker turner 16" heavy duty BS (about 900 lbs) that i bought for 100$ on craigs list and it required 40$ in bearings and I bought a new (thats right) baldor 2hp 3 phase motor off of cl because some guy took it in trade for a job he did not knowing that he could not run it on a standard power. Anyway go register and check out the site its great.

[John TenEyck]

Am I the only one wondering why you don't just upgrade the power to 30 amps? If you are willing to think about phase converters you should be willing to tackle a simple and low cost job of changing your 20 amp to a 30 amp breaker, or adding a new 30 amp breaker or fuse box, and pulling some new wire to handle those amps. Or buy the parts and give an electrician friend $100 to do it. It's pretty darned simple. Unless you want to rehab old 3 phase machines, why would you go that route? 30 amps will get you to 5 HP single phase and you should be able to run about any machine you'd want as a hobbiest at that level. Keep it simple and you'll have more time for woodworking.

John

[Alan Lightstone]

Am I the only one wondering why you don't just upgrade the power to 30 amps? If you are willing to think about phase converters you should be willing to tackle a simple and low cost job of changing your 20 amp to a 30 amp breaker, or adding a new 30 amp breaker or fuse box, and pulling some new wire to handle those amps. Or buy the parts and give an electrician friend $100 to do it. It's pretty darned simple. Unless you want to rehab old 3 phase machines, why would you go that route? 30 amps will get you to 5 HP single phase and you should be able to run about any machine you'd want as a hobbiest at that level. Keep it simple and you'll have more time for woodworking.

John

I'm with John on this one. I got a new panel installed in my garage with 30 amp 220 circuits (multiple for multiple machines) and haven't regretted it once. And I haven't flipped a breaker once with my 5HP machines also.

Yes, the 3ph old iron has a certain allure, but so does dependable, ubiquitous power.

[John Loftis]

Am I the only one wondering why you don't just upgrade the power to 30 amps? If you are willing to think about phase converters you should be willing to tackle a simple and low cost job of changing your 20 amp to a 30 amp breaker, or adding a new 30 amp breaker or fuse box, and pulling some new wire to handle those amps. Or buy the parts and give an electrician friend $100 to do it. It's pretty darned simple. Unless you want to rehab old 3 phase machines, why would you go that route? 30 amps will get you to 5 HP single phase and you should be able to run about any machine you'd want as a hobbiest at that level. Keep it simple and you'll have more time for woodworking.

John

Great question. I'm not saying this is right, but I guess the way I feel is that putting any more money into my garage shop would be like dropping $20k souping up a 1984 Toyota Corolla. I've got a 100 foot run to my breaker box, the main is pretty much maxed out as it is, yadda yadda. So my ass-umption is it would be a lot of cash for a temporary solution. Then again, HD sells 100 feet of 10-2 wire for $100, which isn't a big deal (with that distance, would 10 gauge wire be thick enough for a 5hp tool?). Running the wire through my attic is a nightmare, but it wouldn't be the end of the world, I guess.

An advantage of a 3 phase converter is I could take it with me if and when I upgrade to a larger shop. On the other hand, I can't see myself 'un-wiring' a wiring job to the garage.

Whatever I buy, there's not a lot of romanticism in it for me. This is a tool to pay the bills. A lot of folks have told me that 'old iron' is generally a lot better than 'new iron.' So if that's the case, then I'm willing to give that a shot, assuming it doesn't break the bank or force me to spend tons of time re-wiring the shop or resuscitating a dead machine.

[David Kumm]

John, even to run three phase you will need to upgrade the wiring. That is a given for anything but a three hp motor. An RPC big enough for any future upgrades will need more amps in to start the motor so the only real choice is a vfd with a three hp motor or three hp single phase. Dave

[Erik Loza]

Mini-Max makes a 16" jointer-planer with a 3hp motor.

Just to clarify, all US jointer/planers get the 4.8hp motor, which requires a 30A breaker. The factory might use smaller motors in other markets.

Best,

Erik Loza
Minimax USA

[John TenEyck]

Oh, I mis-understood. You need to pay the bills with your machines? If that's the case you shouldn't even be thinking about old iron if you aren't familiar with them and don't know how to assess their condition. You might find one ready to go, but more likely whatever you find will be well worn and need a bunch of work. If I had to eat from what my tools made, I'd only buy tools that I knew would run w/o having to put unknown $$'s and time into.

You didn't say why you need a planer wider than 15" so I'm curious. I've made a lot of stuff over the years with only a 12" planer. Of course I'd like to have a big monster, but I don't need one. If I need to make a wide panel I plane "sub-panels" that will fit through my planer, leaving them a little thick, edge join them, and then finish them with my open ended drum sander. Yeah, takes another step, but I can do it all with no more than 3HP. OK, if I had to make my living doing this, I'd want a monster planer. But then I wouldn't be worrying about a couple hundred dollars to pull 100 feet of wire to run it either. You have to decide which way to go. If you're in, you have to be all in. Sorry if this comes across a little harsh; that wasn't my intention.

John

[John Loftis]

John, right now I'm making both custom furniture and end-grain cutting boards. The problem I'm trying to solve is with the cutting boards. As I scale up production of them, I've got to be able to churn them out more quickly. And sanding/flattening end-grain boards takes forever, even with a 37" dual drum sander (straight, deep scratch marks from the drum sander are brutal to get out). I talked with the folks at Byrd, and they assured me that I could finish plane end-grain cutting boards with a shelical head. I actually tested that with a maple cutting board at my local Stiles, and it seemed to work pretty well. So if I could run the cutting board through the planer, then kiss it with the belt sander, then finish sand with the Rotex, that would save me about 30 minutes of sanding per board.

So that led me to a new planer. I can get about 75% of my cutting boards done with a 15" planer, and that might be what I need to do until I get to a larger shop. I can still use the drum sander with my big cutting boards. BTW, I had a customer order a 27" X 30" X 3" end-grain cherry board from me today... Man, that sucker is going to be HEAVY!

Or maybe I'll just run a wire and move up to a 20". I would guess that since both types generally have 4 post designs, that they are pretty much the same tool, quality-wise.

I could analyze this thing to death, I guess...

[Alan Lightstone]

I always thought that planing end-grain boards was a recipe for disaster. Literally. Like they can explode. I have a 16" jointer/planer (Laguna), but don't use the planer portion on the end grain boards I make.

I just use the drum sander on mine (though I don't have a dual drum one.) Yes it takes time, and no, I'm not producing them for clients, so time isn't important to me. Obviously, you have far different requirements.

[John TenEyck]

John, maybe Byrd promised you their cutterhead would work, but I wouldn't do it. If your board is crowned at all it could break when the rollers push it down flat and you'll be running for cover from what happens next. Even if the board gets through OK, the cutters are going to break out the back edge unless you put on a sacrificial board. I think a better approach is to mill your end grain blocks so that they are automatically aligned as you glue them up. You could do this with internal splines for example; probably several other ways. Then you will have minimal cleanup to do after they are glued up, and your drum sander should be able to handle that with a finer grit so that it doesn't leave those big scratches. I use mostly 120 grit in my drum sander, and never anything coarser than 80 grit, for exactly the reason you mentioned. Those deep scratches from coarse grits are nearly impossible to remove, so it's better to not make them. I think if spend some time to develop a precision process for making, aligning, and gluing up your blocks you'll get where you want with less waste, time, and $$'s. See, I just saved you from buying that big planer !

John

[John Loftis]

John, maybe Byrd promised you their cutterhead would work, but I wouldn't do it. If your board is crowned at all it could break when the rollers push it down flat and you'll be running for cover from what happens next. Even if the board gets through OK, the cutters are going to break out the back edge unless you put on a sacrificial board. I think a better approach is to mill your end grain blocks so that they are automatically aligned as you glue them up. You could do this with internal splines for example; probably several other ways. Then you will have minimal cleanup to do after they are glued up, and your drum sander should be able to handle that with a finer grit so that it doesn't leave those big scratches. I use mostly 120 grit in my drum sander, and never anything coarser than 80 grit, for exactly the reason you mentioned. Those deep scratches from coarse grits are nearly impossible to remove, so it's better to not make them. I think if spend some time to develop a precision process for making, aligning, and gluing up your blocks you'll get where you want with less waste, time, and $$'s. See, I just saved you from buying that big planer !

John

Lol. Well, I haven't made thousands of end-grain cutting boards by hand yet, but I'm definitely in the mid-hundreds. So my process is about as finely-tuned as I know how to make it with the (non-production) tools I've got. If you want to suffer through a video narrative, I'll let ya: http://www.lonestarartisans.com/how-...cutting-board/

Not saying this is the 'best' way, but it IS the best way I know how to do it. There are aspects of the video that people will undoubtedly react to, but we're straying a little far afield.

I'd be fine with flattening the end grain board with 50/50 grit on the dual drum sander and then taking a wafer-thin (Mr. Creosote) pass on the planer to get those scratch marks out. That would save me 20 minutes of sanding per board.