Talk me out of building an eight foot bench please.

[Warren Mickley]

Nice Vise, Dave “They don’t come no better !” When I made my bench I fell for the old books advise to make them out of beech.
I had a hard time finding the stuff. Then I read beech was used mainly ‘cuz it was cheap and plentiful.

Beech has been used because it is the premier bench wood. It is reasonably hard and heavy and it has the ability to absorb shock and vibration, which is nice it you are working on it all day. Much better than hard maple.

Andre Roubo (1769) says that benches are commonly made of beech and elm (both of which absorb shock), but that beech is preferred and most common because it has a finer grain. It is kind of annoying to write on a piece of paper on a bench made of ash or oak or elm because of the pores in those woods.

[Mike Mason]

Beech has been used because it is the premier bench wood. It is reasonably hard and heavy and it has the ability to absorb shock and vibration, which is nice it you are working on it all day. Much better than hard maple.

Andre Roubo (1769) says that benches are commonly made of beech and elm (both of which absorb shock), but that beech is preferred and most common because it has a finer grain. It is kind of annoying to write on a piece of paper on a bench made of ash or oak or elm because of the pores in those woods.

I also have read that beech was, and is, used in European benches and tools primarily because it is the most plentiful/cheap wood that is pretty good for that application, but that there are other woods in North America that are better suited and cheaper than beech is in North America.

Also, I don't know that everything that Roubo (or anyone else) said 250+ years ago is valid today - the wood today is different (slow growth in a forest full of competing trees vs. fast growth in a managed forest), we have vastly more knowledge in the field of wood technology, etc. It's a romantic sentiment, but not everything old is better - for example, I've looked at a half dozen ca. 1750 highboys in museums with their cross-grain construction on the lower sides that allows the use of pinned mortise and tenon joinery with the legs, and I have yet to see one that isn't cracked on both sides. The reproduction that I built many years ago, using a Carlyle Lynch drawing of a museum piece, soon suffered the same fate, which makes it more true to the original. The finest craftsmen back then didn't fully comprehend wood movement and they didn't leave room in the mortises or slot the holes in their drawbored tenons. (Having said that, what many craftsmen accomplished back then with the tools they had available to them is truly amazing to me).

I have five workbenches that I have made, ranging from 5 ft to 7 ft in length, and although a longer workbench would be great, I've never really had a project that required one, and I've built three eight-ft tall armoires for our home with nine-ft ceilings. I agree that if the primary reason is to gain extra weight, either adding weight on a low shelf or lagging it to the floor are better options. Another option might be to increase friction by adding "crubber" or a similar material to the bottom of the four posts. It's easy to add weight to a shelf under the workbench; in fact it's hard NOT to do it unless you have a huge shop with more storage space than you need.

Some of the old benches that have survived were 10 ft or longer, but that may have been done to allow two people to work on a bench at the same time, or it may have been done intentionally just to gain some nearby space for tools and wood.

If the OP has the room, I doubt that he will regret having a longer bench, whether or not it's really required.

[scott lipscomb]

"The finest craftsmen back then didn't fully comprehend wood movement"

I have a hard time believing that.

[Warren Mickley]

I also have read that beech was, and is, used in European benches and tools primarily because it is the most plentiful/cheap wood that is pretty good for that application, but that there are other woods in North America that are better suited and cheaper than beech is in North America.

Also, I don't know that everything that Roubo (or anyone else) said 250+ years ago is valid today - the wood today is different (slow growth in a forest full of competing trees vs. fast growth in a managed forest), .

You don't know? I should say! You picked the wrong tree to suggest that the wood is different.

Beech is a climax species in the forest. It grows in mature forests because it can endure under a shady canopy with competition. Fast growth in a managed forest? You are thinking of some other tree.

[steven c newman]

Starting to sound just like a Classic Sharpening thread, isn't it?

Need to show these people WHERE to get the same sized SLABS Roubo used.....OR, just let them buy and used the timber that is native to their own area.

"Those who dwell in the past....."

There are a few out there, that claim that to be a "True Neanderthal Woodworker" One has to work only by Candlelight..NO electric lights are permitted in THEIR shop. Except..Neanderthals used STONE Tools.....hmmm...

[Mel Fulks]

Beech was also used in Windsor chairs. Easily bent. Today beech chairs would be a big deal on late night TV commercials for ‘Beech Nuts

[Cameron Wood]

"The finest craftsmen back then didn't fully comprehend wood movement"

I have a hard time believing that.

Even farmers of the day took into account wood species for different parts of a piece; season, and even phase of the moon for harvesting wood, seasoning, and other factors that we climate-controlled box-dwellers sniff at.

[Scott Winners]

As far as figuring if an 8' bench will work for you, try clamping a couple of 8' 2X4s to the bench to see how it works for moving around in the shop. If it works, great. If it doesn't work, then you saved some lumber.

jtk

You guys have made a bunch of really good points, all of you.

The one that works best for me is this one from Jim K, just clamp a couple 8 foot 2x4s to my existing 48 inch bench top once I get it moved into the new place and see what I think.

Practical, easy, cheap, thanks Jim.

[Scott Winners]

My last bench was built shorter than my previous bench despite nearly doubling my shop size. Extra work surface come with a larger footprint that robs you of valuable shop rel estate IMHO. A bench should be as big as you need and no larger. Extra surface just takes up space that could be better used, collects tools, parts, and spoil that should otherwise be put away, stored, or tossed. I do like my bench deeper than most at about 30" since it is often used for dry assembly. Your mileage will most certainly vary. Current bench is about 30" by 75" including the vise chop.

Yes to all. I agree a bench should be no larger than it needs to be, but it also needs to be heavy enough, stiff enough for the user. In the new space my shop is moving to, I simply don't have room to keep all my tools, keep my four foot bench AND add an assembly table. One of the attractions of an 8 foot bench to me in this unique situation is I might end up with an 8 foot bench to do joinery on, and then use the same surface as the assembly table.

And I might cut it back to 90 inches. Or 80. But if I build a 72" long benchtop and need an extra 8 inches someday, opportunity lost.

[Scott Winners]

I can't realistically quote all y'all, but thank you for the discussion.

I don't have a lot of botany background, but I am fairly confident I read somewhere European Beech and American Beech, though very similar in appearance, are not actually in the same genus taxonomically.

I should have specified my anticipated bench top will be laminated 8/4 birch, nominal 6" width - for a glued up top nominal 24x6x96, about 320 pounds for the slab. I can get 8/4 local air dried birch for $1 per bf, about 30 cents per pound, but I am going to have to pick through a lot of planks to come up with 12 keepers. With the help of the local HS football team there should be no trouble dragging it out to a moving truck, tipping it up on end, and then tipping it slab down onto the floor of a moving truck, for the price of a couple phone calls, a couple pizzas and a couple liters of sugary soda pop. Call it a team building event when you phone your local high school.

I do have some hand planes that can make edge/trim profiles, and I am not getting any younger. When I have fooled with shapes/ edge banding on previous projects, I find when I can do the whole profile on one stick, and then cut the shaped stick into shorter parts the trim looks better on the project compared to trying to cut the same profile on several short pieces.

I keep my bench planes on the shelf under my bench and have (personally) no room for much else under there. The idea of using a bucket of concrete or a lunchbox planer on that shelf is valid, but it does not work for me in my unique situation. On behalf of future search button users, thank you for the good ideas.

There was a little talk about cabinetry I should address. I really like 9-10 foot ceilings in my home. A bit of headroom makes any room of any size feel 'bigger' than the floor plan shows. One of the builds I have coming up will be a lower wall unit with perhaps a 30x30 inch face, about 16 inches deep, with 4-6 drawers in it. The secondary wood for the drawers will be some kind of cedar. When it is done I can put all the heirloom textiles in there and not worry about them any more. One of my great grandma's was a tatter, with the little spools of white thread to make like doilies and so on? She was an animal with those little spools. Me and my sister and all the cousins have several of her pieces, and we all trot them out on the major holidays, but I don't want to worry about them anymore, they are going in cedar drawers. Above that I want to build a china cabinet of some sort with windowed side walls and windowed front doors. In there I want to put stuff like the salt and pepper shaker set my G-grandma Pauline's uncle Bill brought home from the 1905 San Francisco expo. The holes in the pepper shaker in that set are too darn small, I don't like my black pepper ground that fine, but you get the idea.

At the end of the day, for future moving days the young people will be looking at items perhaps 30 x 60 x 16 and others at 30 x 30 x 16 (nominal) that can fit under 8 foot ceilings if they need to.

Using a doe's foot and a holdfast to clamp a 60" plank for working on the face, on a 72" bench, is going to be problematic. If an 8 foot top doesn't work in my shop I will have to build ~6 feet and will need a tail vise to make it happen.

Thanks again for each of your various insightful points of view.

[Rob Luter]

I wish I had the space for a longer bench. Mine is a whole 60" long. As it is it's about the only thing in the shop that's not on wheels. Using the table saw, planer, belt sander, etc., is like playing a game of Tetris.

[Tom Trees]

I'd not want my bench any shorter, here's a two meter beam for reference, though I had to remove my planing stop to test it.
By happen-stance I used this lab counter stuff and need shim it flat, (turned out to be the perfect height)
SAM_5299.jpg
The angle poise lamp (situated on the bench) will just about reach the full capacity of it.
SAM_5287.jpg
A full width planing stop, and a board to make the lamp more comfortable
SAM_3411.JPG
The retractable casters design is a bit agricultural, and a bit of a pain when tucked away if need be, but at least it's not four of them,
and I must mention gets moved about a lot more than I thought I'd be moving it, due to ease.
My next base for the bench behind will have to be tidier looking and more functional, i.e able to be easily used from either side of the bench,
bit other than that it's sound.
SAM_4117.jpg

Tom

[Monte Milanuk]

Larry Williams once argued that historically a cabinetmaker only needed a five or six foot bench. I pointed out that a large chest has mouldings that are seven feet long or so, and would be difficult to make on such a bench.

Warren,

Just curious, and asking from a position of ignorance, having never done mouldings by hand... but couldn't a person make a sticking board of some sort for the occasional bit of moulding, one long enough to overhang the bench on either end without affecting the function too much, but still something that could be stood up in a corner or hung on the wall when not in use? Then a 6 ft bench would accommodate the other 98+% of the day-to-day usage? Not as ideal as a bigger bench, but possibly workable?

Yes/no/maybe?

Monte

[Warren Mickley]

Warren,

Just curious, and asking from a position of ignorance, having never done mouldings by hand... but couldn't a person make a sticking board of some sort for the occasional bit of moulding, one long enough to overhang the bench on either end without affecting the function too much, but still something that could be stood up in a corner or hung on the wall when not in use? Then a 6 ft bench would accommodate the other 98+% of the day-to-day usage? Not as ideal as a bigger bench, but possibly workable?

Yes/no/maybe?

Monte

Yes one could do that, although most sticking boards rely on the rigidity of the underlying bench. And making a precise sticking board longer than the bench is a bit work also.

I have made ten and eleven foot mouldings on an eight foot bench on occasion; it is just a whole lot easier if the bench is longer.

[Tom M King]

A longer bench would have been better.