Hammer A3-31 arrived ... and fell off the truck

[Erik Loza]

Scott, I am able to (and sometines do) re-sell machines that show up and "look" like they are damaged but often, it's just the crate or just some minor parts. Sounds like that was the case with yours. As for anything more significant, I don't have time. We tried it. Each year, SCM would give me a list of damaged or as-is machine and what I can sell them for. Believing that folks would want these great deals, I spent all sorts of time on the phone, chasing guys around. In my experience, though, the cheaper the machine, the the harder it is to sell. For example, I got a list of freight-damaged sliders once and the prices were great, Below cost, a bargain for the right customer. But every guy who called me back seemed to want an album of digital photos of each particular machine (which is imposssible to provide...), a list of exactly what spare parts were needed to repair it (again, impossible to provide), and then "time to think about it". Meanwhile, December is my busiest sales month of the year ans these guys wanted me to talk them into these smashed/as-is machines. Maybe other sales guys have time for that but I never seem to. It's probably not what some customers want to hear but if I have half a dozen voice mails from guys wanting to buy new sliders and half a dozen from guys interested in as-is machines, guess who I'm calling?

The thing customers have to keep in mind is that with companies that operate an inventory-forward business model (selling stock on hand, as opposed to taking money for future orders), the biggest priority is getting iron out the door. With as much volume as SCM has on hand, they want to avoid paying taxes on as much unsold inventory at the EOY as possible so, from a business perspective, scrapping or donating damaged stock actually makes more sense than having a fire sale and hoping someone buys it. If that makes sense.

Erik

[Scott Allen27]

Erik,
I understand, and some guys don't mind the risk, while some would rather have the piece of mind buying new.
I personally would probably not have ended up with a combo machine had it not been for the machine Sam sold me. I just couldn't justify the cost of a new one, even the Lab (which I briefly considered).
I would have ended up with a J/P combo (FS 30 Classic) that I am sure I would have been happy with, even though I wanted a combo. So it was a great fit for me and I am sure there are other guys out there in the same boat.

Also, now that I have the machine (which I love), and because of the great experience I had dealing with you guys, when it comes time to upgrade my bandsaw either this year or next, you can bet it will be the S400 or S500.
So yea, maybe it is more work for the sales team (which I get), but you very well may end up creating a repeat customer in the process.

Having said that, I understand completely that all things being equal, you focus on selling new machines. That is to be expected. I just find it interesting that more customers wouldn't JUMP on a chance to grab a slider or combo for possibly half (or less) of retail. I find that amazing in itself.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Scott,

I am one who most likely won't buy anything but new, undamaged with a full factory warrantee.

For over 40 years I repaired stuff from radar used to land aircraft in bad weather while in the US Navy to 34 years of installing and maintaining CT and MR scanners. When I buy a new machine it isn't worth it to me to save money and yet have that little nagging doubt in the back of my mind that there could be a potential problem. It's just not worth it to me.

If after I have used a tool for a reasonable length of time, I have to repair it....so what? I expect that.

It is like so many things in life......subjective.....what's right for me may not be right for you vice versa........there is no right or wrong......it's subjective.....it's in the eye of the beholder.

Regularly you see people who come to the Creek to complain about the purchase they made.....used....or lesser quality lower priced and they have a problem. Too often, from where I look at the situation, they let price be their main priority when buying a tool. I am not bashing those who do this. I don't have an unlimited budget and I always balance potential use, price with what my budget can afford. But, I often pass up what others might deem a great deal because it doesn't meet my criteria.

Myself.....I am very hesitant to buy damaged tools. But that's me.....

[Keith Hankins]

yep sucks. I had a TS delivered that was damaged and sent that sucker back once you accpet it it's yours! They will make it right and thats what insurance is for! Bummer though it being Christmas and all

[glenn bradley]

Ouch! I'm sorry that happened. On the upside, you have got a great new avatar:

Hammer Down.JPG

[Frederick Skelly]

On the upside, you have got a great new avatar:

Hammer Down.JPG

Oooph, sputter, gasp, spit - coffee all over the monitor again. That was too funny Glenn.

[John Sanford]

The thing customers have to keep in mind is that with companies that operate an inventory-forward business model (selling stock on hand, as opposed to taking money for future orders), the biggest priority is getting iron out the door. With as much volume as SCM has on hand, they want to avoid paying taxes on as much unsold inventory at the EOY as possible so, from a business perspective, scrapping or donating damaged stock actually makes more sense than having a fire sale and hoping someone buys it. If that makes sense.

Erik

it sounds like there may be a good opportunity for a "separate" company to be created that is the scrapper, who then breaks the machines down for the parts. Then next time y'all need a part that's not in stock, you don't have to call Italy, you can just call the faux-scrapper.

[Rich Riddle]

I don't help unload things like that because blame can be shifted to you. If you pay for delivery, it's up to the delivery company to employ enough people to safely place it on the ground.

[Keith Weber]

Another thing you have to consider is that by supplying a market of discount damaged tools, a company can generate a decline in the sales of new machines. A customer without an option of saving money will be forced to either buy a new one, or do without. Sure, they can buy a used one from an individual, but often that individual was looking for an upgrade and end up buying a new replacement anyway. It's all basic supply and demand. Keep the supply of available machines low, and the demand (and hence, price and revenues) will go up. Look at companies like Bose, Festool, Stihl, etc... They work hard at preventing anybody from discounting their brand. If you want one, you pay full price. Those companies do quite well.

You might say, "yeah, well I was never going to buy one if my only option was full price." Fair enough, but companies are looking for revenues, and the frugal woodworker isn't worth their time.

[Curt Harms]

.................................................. ........
You might say, "yeah, well I was never going to buy one if my only option was full price." Fair enough, but companies are looking for revenues, and the frugal woodworker isn't worth their time.

And along come Grizzly, Rikon, Jet et. al. to fill that market niche. Most people get what they want, companies make enough $$ to make it worth their while, everybody wins.

[John Schweikert]

Well, in the case of Festool, they do sell used gear in a large near annual sale of items which were returned in the 30 day period. People can can save 20-40% on the exact same tools with 1 yr warranty instead of full price with 3 yr warranty. The sale goes quickly since there is limited supply.

Another thing you have to consider is that by supplying a market of discount damaged tools, a company can generate a decline in the sales of new machines. A customer without an option of saving money will be forced to either buy a new one, or do without. Sure, they can buy a used one from an individual, but often that individual was looking for an upgrade and end up buying a new replacement anyway. It's all basic supply and demand. Keep the supply of available machines low, and the demand (and hence, price and revenues) will go up. Look at companies like Bose, Festool, Stihl, etc... They work hard at preventing anybody from discounting their brand. If you want one, you pay full price. Those companies do quite well.

You might say, "yeah, well I was never going to buy one if my only option was full price." Fair enough, but companies are looking for revenues, and the frugal woodworker isn't worth their time.

[Erik Loza]

...I just find it interesting that more customers wouldn't JUMP on a chance to grab a slider or combo for possibly half (or less) of retail. I find that amazing in itself.

I thought so as well, which is why I (for a time) worked aggressively to offer these units but my experience has been that guys won't buy them sight-unseen. It might be different if SCM Group had a tent sale or something like that but in my experience, they're just too much work to move.

it sounds like there may be a good opportunity for a "separate" company to be created that is the scrapper, who then breaks the machines down for the parts. Then next time y'all need a part that's not in stock, you don't have to call Italy, you can just call the faux-scrapper.

Actually, there is. I won't mention the name here but there is a machinery dealer that does buy a large quantity of damaged stock from SCM Group each year. They pay a fraction of the price for new and then I guess, try to R&R and resell those units. Personally, I don't know if they do much better than me: I have yet to run up against one of my "own" machines from them in all these years. Maybe they just want them for the parts? Not really sure. Anyone could buy these machines as these guys do, but you need to take a quantity of them, not just one-sey, two-sey.

Another thing you have to consider is that by supplying a market of discount damaged tools, a company can generate a decline in the sales of new machines...

We saw this during and after the recession. So many shops going out of business that the market got flooded with used machinery at pennies on the dollar and nobody was buying new. That inventory has pretty much dried up, however. I am taking lots of calls for new stuff rather than "Got any used?". The market is on the upswing and as Ken pointed out, if guys have the money, they want new, due to the warranty, insured delivery, etc. At least in my experience.

Erik

[Tim McCarthy]

I would not feel a bit sorry for the driver. It was totally his fault! Common sense if not so common these days.