Grizzly 1023RLW vs Harvey Alpha HW110TC-36P

[Jim Luton]

I have to order a new TSaw very soon, and I'm torn between these 2 saws. I was sorry to hear about Chris Sonego's trials and tribulations with his Grizzly purchase, as I had just about decided on the 1023 as a solid, very basic machine. The Harveys look nice, with what appear to be good features, but I've never seen one in person, and there's precious little feedback out there. As a point of reference, I'm a retired professional woodworker, just relocated to rural Va. I spent the last 35 years in NYC as a custom woodworker. My last industrial saw was a Felder KF700S, but I worked on Altendorfs, Martins, and of course Unisaws, etc. I now have a small 24 x 27 shop, and a basic cabinet saw will suit me fine.

So, any opinions out there regarding the two, including shipping issues? The Harvey is a little more $$ and shipping is more also. I have had two Grizzly 17" bandsaws, which compared very favorably to my Minimax MM16 at 1/3 the price. Good, basic machines.

Thanks very much in advance!

[Charles Coolidge]

Started liking the Harvey but then looked at the trunnions.

grizzly01.jpg

harvey01.jpg

[Chris Sonego]

What’s the problem with the trunion mounting bolts?

[Jim Luton]

Started liking the Harvey but then looked at the trunnions.

grizzly01.jpg

harvey01.jpg

Charles, are you saying that the Harvey trunnion mounting is too narrow? The Grizz spreads the load out to the 4 corners of the cabinet? I took a look at the exploded parts diagram, and it looks like that is the case. The 4hp Harvey has a different trunnion which looks wider. It also has a vertical lift via dovetail ways rather than the typical worm drive. Its about the same price (for a short while) as the 3hp version, but a month longer back order.
Thanks for your input.

[Patrick Kane]

I have no experience with Harvey, but the Grizzly design is time tested. The difference between the two is about $500ish? I will say, for that price increase you get a much nicer overhead guard/dust collection and the fence is nicer. I much prefer an extruded aluminum fence face. Much flatter and straighter than the crap bies fence faces. It has slightly more benefit in being pulled back to act as a stop for using the miter gauge.

I don’t think I could go backwards like you are describing.

[Charles Coolidge]

The Grizzly larger corner mounted trunnions

grizzly02.jpg

The narrow Harvey center mounted trunnions. Note the motor hanging off to one side then think about how to brace that weight.

harvey02.jpg

[Charles Coolidge]

It also has a vertical lift via dovetail ways rather than the typical worm drive.

BOTH the Harvey and Grizzly use worm drives and dovetail ways. Here's the Harvey

harvey03.jpg

Here's the Grizzly dovetale ways

grizzly03.png

[Charles Coolidge]

With trunnions out of the way, I mentioned I was liking the Harvey so let me rip into the Grizzly with dislikes.

1. The Harvey has slightly thicker tables 1.83 inches thick vs 1.75 inches on the Grizzly. AND the Harvey table is 31.5 inches deep vs only 27 inches on the Grizzly. That's 4.5 inches more table depth.

2. Worse, it appears the router table extension on the Grizzly is only 1.5 inches thick so not even as thick as the main table or left extension wing. Plus why even offer a router table extension today that does not accommodate a router lift? I dub the Grizzly router table extension wing useless.

3. Seriously Grizzly why didn't you grind the rail like the G0696X which has ground flat rail surfaces on the top and front?

4. Grizzly are you short on chrome or something you have the nice rounded handwheels but cheap out on the chrome plating? Look at the G0696X hand wheels.

5. The dust collection port on the Grizzly is retarded. Look up inside there, they choke off half the 4 inch port for the hose up to the blade shroud. The Harvey looks a touch better design but still divides the 4 inch port.

Back to the Harvey

1. What's up with the cheap plastic looking lock knobs on the tilt and height hand wheels?

2. Well at least you ground the front of the fence rail, not the top though like on the G0696X.

3. Those are pretty cheap looking handwheels by the way, note the better quality on the 1023 and even better on the G0696X.



Both the Grizzly 1023 and Harvey need to adopt the flat head counter sink rail bolts used on the G0696X and Sawstop ICS saws. I was a bit concerned about the 1.5 inch table thickness on my ICS 5hp, until I tightened all the flat top counter sink rail bolts, that ties the extension wings in rock solid with no flex.

[Mike Kees]

I have a friend who is a former employee of mine that has a grizzly 1023. First I will say I have extensive experience with Unisaws, somewhere around 25 years on the one in my shop as well as buying ,repairing and selling at least three or four more. The Grizz is an excellent saw that gives up nothing to a Uni. It reminds me of a general 350 for the smoothness of it running and cutting. I have zero experience with a Harvey, never even seen one.

[Paul Haus]

I can't speak to the Harvey but I do have a Grizzly G1026 cabinet saw (pre riving knife model) for I'm guessing 10+ years now. Quite frankly I didn't like the blade guard on it, it just wasn't too useful IMO. I spent a couple of years working with the oem guard then decided I wanted to upgrade to an overhead arm guard. I looked at a bunch of them and even bought a Uniguard and was not happy with it. I finally designed and built my own modular guard and it's been much more useful than any of the others I tried or looked at. I have both the blade guard portion of the Uniguard I can use or a Whale Shark basket that I have set up with dust collection, it's modular so they are interchangeable. I picked up a push-pull splitter from someone on one of the forums that was making them and now I'm very satisfied with the guards and use them. This saw is much like the new ones AFAIK with the exception the newer ones have the riving knife.
I've also made a few other changes to my saw, like a vertical fence extension and an extended mobile base with provisions for a storage cabinet. Each was an improvement to the saw but would apply to most any cabinet saw.
Other than the updates I've made to my saw I have not had any other issues with it. They were all for convenience and have been good from my standpoint.

[Mitch schiffer]

If you haven't already seen it "stumpynumbs" does a walk around/review on the harvey. I am not sure if he is sponsored or not as it did seem overly positive. I do like the larger table size. I had a general 350 and now have a saw stop. I believe the general table size was similar to the harvey and the ss is similar to the grizzly. I do think harvey makes some decent tools and have been gaining more traction in the market. I ordered a Harvey bandsaw but have not received it yet. I bought the ss after cutting a figer off and spend more then the cost of the saw in medical bills If I were looking for a new saw and the safety feature wasn't important I would choose the harvey over the grizzly.

[Bruce Page]

Jim, Harvey is relatively new to the market so info is a little scarce. There are a few members here that have Harvey machinery and the opinions I have read are positive, overall.

Here’s a link to recent review on the Alpha:
https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread....110S-36-Review

[Alex Zeller]

Just a quick note about trunnions. My PM66 has trunnions similar to the Harvey. I don't recall anyone saying that the problem with the PM66 is it's trunnions. My biggest problem with the Harvey is parts. Like or hate Grizzly they do seem to keep plenty of parts in stock for older machines. Try finding much of anything for a PM66 now. With Harvey I don't see the company folding since they make equipment for a number of brands. But if their saw isn't identical to saws they make for other brands will they carry the trunnion of one wears out 10 years from now?

[Jim Luton]

I keep getting booted out and losing posts. It says I'm not logged in??

I just wrote a lengthy response to all the comments on this thread, and my login expired while I was putting it together. Lost everything. Grrr.

I'll try this again. Thanks for all the responses to my post. I do appreciate the thoughtful comments.

Charles Coolidge’s comments got me looking closer at the parts diagrams and layout of the two saws. I do appreciate the wider stance of the Grizzly trunnion mounts. I think the Grizzly is likely a more robust saw, but I also think the Harvey is built pretty well. The 3 hp Harvey has a swing up trunnion on a worm drive, but the 4 hp Harvey and the Grizzly have vertical lift dovetail ways. Harvey sells a thin kerf riving knife for their saws. I don’t see one for that model Grizzly. Grizzly has cheap zero clearance insert blanks. Harvey’s is pricey. I’ve always made my own form MDF or PB, with flat head screws underneath for leveling. Seems like I can do the same for either saw, with appropriate cutouts for riving knife and quick release guard (Harvey).

The guard is definitely better on the Harvey, with some dust collection. I’d probably just take the Grizzly guard off. At some point, I’ll add a good over arm guard with real dust collection. I had an old Excalibur overarm guard on a Robland slider that worked pretty well. I sold that with the Robland when I bought the Felder. And I hear you about “going backwards”. But I don’t have the space or budget for a slider. I’m retired and don’t mind things taking a little longer to do. I feel fortunate to have my snug, heated shop just out back. It is harder to get deliveries than the old NYC shop with loading dock, though.

As for the router table, the Grizzly pretty much matches what I have now. I have to use the router table from the front of the table saw, rather than from the end of the extension, because my jointer is tucked into the end of the saw. See pic below. I use the router table occasionally for small profiles, but for real joinery and pattern stuff etc., I use the shaper and stock feeder, I have an old Bridgewood shaper, and just bought a Grizzly 1hp stock feeder. I haven’t had a chance to use it much yet, but it replaced a Bridgewood 4 wheel feeder that died. I’ve done lots of work on that old shaper. If I were to go with a full blown router table with lift, I’d use a stand alone unit anyway. It would still pay to keep the router on the table saw set up with a chamfer bit or some such, for frequent use, or for trimming edgeband, say. I’m not likely to buy some $1,000 router table.





I did look at Saw Stop. Besides being more expensive, one dealer recommends buying several additional cartridges (at $100 + per). Is it that sensitive? I guess I’d also need a few extra $200 blades as well. Not going there, but I do respect that people really like the safety feature.

The Grizzly 1023 RLW is $2,425 plus $239 shipping. In stock now.
The Harvey 110TC-36P (3hp) is $2,549 plus $359 shipping. Shipping Jan. 30 (from China?)
The Harvey 110S-36P (4hp) is $2,579 plus $359 shipping. Shipping Feb. 30. I likely won’t see that until the end of March This price is good for just a few more hours, I believe. Trying now to find out.

[Jim Luton]

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