Destroying family lore

[Kev Williams]

Many years ago, like 40 or so-?, There was some documentary I was watching, don't remember exactly what it was about but I distinctly remember at the end, the host declared that no matter how far we go back, none of us are 'farther apart' than 22nd cousins...

Doing a little googling some guy claims that he and most Icelanders are "something like" the 28th cousin of Queen Elizabeth II, and that anyone who can document ancestry back to the prophet Mohamed may be 40th cousins to the queen...

? I have no idea

As for my lineage, I did some checking a few years ago, only got as far back as around the great-great-great grandparents times-- weirdest thing I found was that there must've been some boring times in those days, because the common theme I found was HUGE families- like 10 to 14 kids was about average! (My dad was one of 9, mom one of 5, [I'm one of 5] and it just went up from there!) Haven't done much research since...

[Jim Becker]

As for my lineage, I did some checking a few years ago, only got as far back as around the great-great-great grandparents times-- weirdest thing I found was that there must've been some boring times in those days, because the common theme I found was HUGE families- like 10 to 14 kids was about average! (My dad was one of 9, mom one of 5, [I'm one of 5] and it just went up from there!) Haven't done much research since...

True dat. Back only about two generations in my tree the typical family size really was pretty amazing as you note. But even my parents' came from families that were larger than is often typical today with 5 and 6 kids respectively with my dad and my mom. Going back several more generations, it appears that it wasn't unusual for there to be multiple female spouses because of so many women dying in childbirth and each one was cranking out the kids during their life tenure. This was particularly true with quite a few of the Germanic DNA relatives in my tree.

[Lee Schierer]

With all the wars and major migrations of people because of those wars as well as famines and disease, I am very skeptical of any source claiming to identify where your ancestors came from. Just look at what happened in Europe recently with millions of people moving from one country to another. The Spanish Armada ran into a storm off the coast of Ireland and many sailors ended up on the beach and a lot of them that lived never went back to Spain.

[Stan Calow]

More kids = more workers on the farm. Those that survived childhood diseases anyway.

[Curt Harms]

More kids = more workers on the farm. Those that survived childhood diseases anyway.

I wonder how many live births made it to adulthood in those times.

[Mike Henderson]

I wonder how many live births made it to adulthood in those times.

From some research I've done, prior to the 19th century, about 40% of children never lived to their 16th birthday. Almost all deaths from disease. That's from memory - I don't have the data in front of me right now. [Here's one source.]

And then, of course, you had the Black Deaths in Europe which wiped out a significant portion of the population, young and old (estimates range from 30% to 60% of the European population).

Mike

[Tom M King]

One of the old houses I work on was owned by a family that had 10 children before 1800. Four lived to be adults. I expect that was worse than typical, but one of the main reasons our life expectancy today is better than even early in the 20th Century is the difference in infant mortality.

My Mother, who is now 106, had one Ancestor in 1770 that died when he was 97. The wagon he was driving down a mountain lost control, and rolled over on him. He was by himself.

[Perry Hilbert Jr]

1.GGGGGGGGF Gearhardt was thrown out of his his hometown in Germany for being a Quaker. Well, he was thrown out, but we aren't sure if he was GGGGGGGGGF or Great GGGGGG uncle
2.GGGGGGGGF Gearhardt petitioned the Philadelphia Colonial Counsel to out law slavery in the colony. Yep he did, but don't know whether a grandfather or uncle.
3.GGGGF Martin married a Moravian Indian near Bethlehem, PA. Well, several descendants have had DNA done and no indigenous native genes show up.,, BUT, I have a family portrait taken in the 1870's. She and most of the kids have darker complexions and high cheek bones.
4. GGGF Abraham had 23 children with the same wife TRUE, I have nearly 1100 3rd cousins.
5. GF Louis had been married before he met grandma. Oh yeah, he sure was, twice, he also had 2 other children before he met grandma that apparently she never found out about.
6. GGGF Franklin, ran away from home, toured the west and married a Sioux Indian Woman. Nope, he never left the east, his wife worked as a toll taker on toll bridge near his home when he met her.
7. GGGGGF Henry, left Pennsylvania in 1784 to go to Ohio to collect on land rewarded to Revolutionary soldiers. Nope, he was in the Royalist militia and was so hated after the war, that he had to leave. First he went to Canada, but couldn't stand the cold there.
8. We come from a long line of Germans. Well no not really, an eighth of them came from Holland, and half came from Alsace, now part of France. One eighth came from Switzerland.
9. As it turns out, the original Hilbert got on board the ship to America as a single man. He got off married with 3 adopted children. His wife's first husband died a few days after the ship left Europe.

[Dwayne Watt]

I have a mostly northern European ancestry with a known, traceable, and relatively recent migration lineage from Ireland, Scotland, England, Norway, and Sweden. However, DNA says I am 88% Scandinavian and barely Scottish or Irish which tells me the known Scottish ancestors (NE coastal area) and possibly the Irish were mostly Viking offspring. However, using a combination of a solid DNA connection and the Latter Day Saints genealogy database, I have recently traced my English roots back 11 direct generations. That fellow was born somewhere around 1600 while his son was born 1627. I was really amazed about that informational finding (not via DNA directy, but via a string of church records of marriages and baptisms). Similarly, those same Vikings apparently found love in parts of Africa and brought it home because there is a low percent of northern African and Nigerian DNA mingled within. I find the DNA work intriguing because it does not change who anyone is, but can affect who they think their ancestors were.

[Tom M King]

Yes, of course. There were major invasions of Vikings into England. They stayed a long time, including in some ruling rolls, and controlled large pieces of territory. Royal blood is well mixed with Viking blood.

[Bill Dufour]

My Mom was born in 1920. She said as a child she was told the ideal family had four children. Two to replace the parents, one to increase the population, and one to die.
Bill D

[Jim Becker]

With all the wars and major migrations of people because of those wars as well as famines and disease, I am very skeptical of any source claiming to identify where your ancestors came from. Just look at what happened in Europe recently with millions of people moving from one country to another. The Spanish Armada ran into a storm off the coast of Ireland and many sailors ended up on the beach and a lot of them that lived never went back to Spain.

That movement is actually pretty well documented by the DNA trail, Lee. Ancestry dot com, for example, even provides a migration map. The DNA trail combined with the huge collective participation is pretty amazing. Yes, there will always be some missing information...nature of the beast. Prior to the DNA tracing becoming pretty mainstream it was all about family records which, as this thread illustrates, could fall victim more often to myths and evolving stories.

[Bill Dufour]

Those DNA testing sites have opened up their database to law enforcement and found relatives of wanted criminals. Then they looked closer at their relatives and found the crooks.
Bill D.

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/...y-race/616171/

[Perry Hilbert Jr]

Some of the migrations through Europe and across some long distances were quite amazing. At one point a Germanic group of mostly lumberman needed a place to settle. A Catholic Bishop, invited them to move to northern Italy to a mountainous sparsely populated area there. They continued there with their German language and customs until the Italian Government outlawed the speaking of German. When the Canton of Bern decreed that all Mennonites must leave the jurisdiction or face death, thousands of Mennonites left and scattered up and down the rivers. Some to the Palatine area of Germany, some to Holland, and even some to Eastern Europe and Russia. They went wherever they were permitted to settle.

Moors took over much of the iberian penninsula and held it for many centuries. Not until the 1400' s were they expelled.

Turks and Ottoman armies made several invasions of Eastern Europe taking over vast territories, even if only for a few years or decades. They were repulsed many times, one of the noted events was the break in the Siege of Vienna in September 11, 1683. (some disagree as to the date and claim the 12th) When the Turk army was routed and decimated as it retreated back toward Turkey. Each time the invading armies left children in their aftermath.

The Crusades themselves caused a large shift of Northern European genes into the middle east and to a much lesser extend brought genes from the middle east back to Northern Europe.

Hannibal's army spent a long time going over the Alps to attack Rome. His Army left north African genes in it's wake. Rome itself brought thousands of people from the extreme reaches of it's empire back to the capital where they were not celibate.

Constant bickering between England and France for a thousand years, spread genes back and forth across the channel.

Considering all of the population movement that occurred, it is surprising that the migrations can be traced as clearly as they can.

[Stan Calow]

That's why I think the testing services that report your ancestry by countries are BS. Its not like your genes have little flags in them. Or that countries like Germany and Italy didnt really exist as countries before the 1870s, as well as borders changing all the time. When you see those commercials that say ". . . 75% Eastern European . . . " - what the heck does that even mean? So I wonder what they really can measure and guess. I'm just assuming its basing a analysis on your data and their database of other people who've tested, and statistically determined that xx% of people with similar genes live in a certain place.

Anyone have a better understanding?