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Thread: Help me identify this hand saw

  1. #16
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    Ok, I went to the shop, to check out those saws...since someone else is afraid to...

    The "D-8" etch?
    IMG_5420.jpg
    With the 8 inside of the D.....belongs to this saw....
    IMG_5426 (640x480).jpg
    Disston D8, 20" long panel saw, 10 ppi.

    The "Pheonix " saws I did find?
    IMG_5422 (640x480).jpg
    And..
    IMG_5425 (640x480).jpg
    Neither of which has been used in quite awhile.
    There IS another saw with a bird....
    IMG_5423 (640x480).jpg
    But, it says Warranted Superior around the Eagle. 5-1/2ppi RIP saw.
    I went through all of the saws I have in the shop.....although, there is a Richardson Brother saw upstairs.....with the Maltese Cross logo on the medallion.

    My other D-8s have the Disston medallion....as do the Disston No. 7......both of them.

    Hope that clarifies what those two side by side photos actually were. Anyone care to show up, and "pull inventory"? More than welcome.

  2. #17
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    Steven,

    Great job! Still don’t understand how any of that supports your claim that Disston etched anything the customer wanted on the IMP saw since none are Imps. Also don’t understand what any of that has to do with the saw the OP has. But don’t let any of that stop you from posting unrelated pictures of saws you own to make a point apparently only you have in mind.

  3. #18
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    Maybe just a wee bit of research on YOUR part...would tell you which saw Disston always custom ordered and etch for customers.....Disston and a few other saw makers would custom etch a saw for a customer as requested...usually to sell through a Hardware Supply Co. EVERY saw maker did this.....anything to improve sales.

    Since you seem to have thing thing about being The Only Source Of all things Saw, and need to always get the last word.....I'll let you go and play Guru.....I am frankly very bored talking to a Troll.

  4. #19
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    Steven,

    Thank you for the compliment! My father always taught me that name calling was the last defense of a weak mind. Have a wonderful evening!

  5. #20
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    I have had quite enough of this "My way or the highway BS. Already scared the OP away, maybe IF you EVER take the time to actually READ things....instead of trying to be the next Bob Smalser....or Joe Bailey..

    The question I asked is: Disston made a Model 090 AND a Model 091....one was straight backed, the other was skew. Maybe you are confused at which one was which? IF you weren't in so much of a hurry to attack me all the time, and maybe READ what I actually do write, instead of changing things to suit your view.....discussion? Not a chance when it is a one-way street like you tend to operate on. I go by what I have in my hand, not some fuzzy barely readable blurb from some catalog.....I'll will simply place you on the ignore list....and then take a shower to remove the stench...

  6. #21
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    Tom, the only saw I know of that has a skew back blade with a pseudo lambs tongue handle is Geo. Bishop's No 115 "Cincinnati Saw Co".
    Saw Manufacturers frequently provided saws to Hardware companies, with blades etched for the Customer's business. Perhaps your saw is a Bishop saw made specially for a New Haven hardware store ?
    see https://geobishopsaws.blogspot.com/2017/01/no115-cincinnati-saw-company.html?view=flipcard

  7. #22
    Newman

    Couldn't help but notice this post of yours on a competing forum

    BSH-1.jpg

    Your answer is in Mr. Taran's post #7 above.

  8. #23
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    The "answer" is in Disston's 1918 catalog.....look it up.

  9. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by steven c newman View Post
    The "answer" is in Disston's 1918 catalog.....look it up.

    I don't think you understand; I don't need to look it up, I already knew the answer.

  10. #25
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    According to the 1918 catalog, models 085, 087, 090 and 091-IMP, were available for custom names. All were straight back.

  11. #26
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    Model 035 was a skew back...also available for custom names.

  12. #27
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    Yes, you are correct. I was more curious about the statement you made earlier
    “Didn’t the IMP saw come in two models? Straight back and a skew? 090 and 091.”



  13. #28
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    Phil,

    I don't take the catalog to mean that. Below are 3 pages from the 1914 catalog, which is quite a bit rarer than the 1918 one that everyone cites. In the 1914 catalog, there are 3 pages of special saws etched to order, 14 total. They are reproduced here (apologies to Steven if they are fuzzy):

    139.jpg140.jpg141.jpg

    The 1911 catalog has no special saws etched to order, and the 1918 catalog has 9 etched to order. From these 3 data points, my take away is that the saws etch to order craze started after 1911, peaked in 1914, and was already fading in 1918.

    This is speculation on my part, but based on observation. I believe the saws shown are examples of saws that were special etched and ordered by someone else and added to the catalog as a standard item. The reason I say this is that I have most of them in my collection, or I have handled them in the past. The Black Diamond, Phila Saw Company, The Clipper and The Enterprise are pretty common. You will also notice two other things if you carefully look at the catalog pages. First, each of the saws has a model number. That tells me it was not some one off deal, but rather a regular item. Second, on 9 of the 14, there is a notice that the image on that saw was a registered trade mark of the US Patent Office. If they went to the trouble to register the image with the USPTO, it's unlikely that they would allow just anyone to use it.

    I think the most logical explanation is that Disston is saying, "Hey! If you have a cockamamie idea for a saw etch and want us to make it for you, look at all these other cockamamie saw etches we've done in the past."

    The next thing you might notice, if you were inclined to, is to look at the bottom of page 141. There you will see the Model #90 with an etch called "Our Saw" It has a straight back and a nib. Directly below that you will notice the infamous "IMP", Model #91. It too has a straight back. I looked in my records and realized I had an IMP saw. Unlike other hazy examples folks might have been recently regaled with, this one leaves little to wonder about what it looked like. You'll notice it's identical to the catalog, as all Disston saws I've seen are:
    Imp.jpgImp_Etch.jpg

    From the catalog and the saw shown, I think that you can conclude that the Number 90 is not, in fact, a skewed back of the IMP. It's a completely different saw, and it didn't have a skew back.

    Turning from the IMP saw, for a minute, let's get back to the saw that the OP posted about. There is conjecture that this is a Hardware store etch. I just don't think it is. In every hardware store saw I've ever seen, it's a regular saw model with the etch in the middle of the blade where it should be, and to the right, there is the etch for the Hardware Store. A few examples from my collection:

    A Disston #7 with an etch for a hardware dealer in NY, Reed and Auerbacher:

    7_Reed.jpg

    A Disston #9 with an etch for a hardware dealer in Boston, Burrill & Dutton:

    9_Dutton.jpg

    A Richardson Saw, with a faint etch for a hardware dealer in Portsmouth, P Wendell & Co:

    Richardson_Wendell.jpg

    In every case, there are two etches. It does not seem like the OP's saw fits this description.
    Last edited by Pete Taran; 08-19-2018 at 12:23 AM.

  14. #29
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    Further, there is talk of it being a RailRoad saw. Like Hardware Store saws, the saws made for the RR had a main etch which corresponded to the model number, and to the right, had the RR etch. These are not as common as Hardware Etches, but one I had handy is shown below from the P&R Railway Co:

    7_PRRWY.jpg

    So what does this leave us with? Seems like the OP's saw is not an IMP, as some speculated. Further, there is no evidence that Disston ever made a saw etched IMP which had a skew blade. It does not seem to fit the accepted practice of a hardware or RR etch.

    What is the saw then? Who can say. Perhaps a better example will turn up, or I will run across one in my collection that is in good enough shape to figure it out. I just know what it's not, and that's an IMP.

    Yours in Arcane Saw facts,

    The Saw Troll

  15. #30
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    Pete, thank you for taking the time to post all this information. It would make sense that someone said “can you make this configuration for me”, and Disston thought, if he wants that, someone else may want it as well and gave it a model # and put it in the catalogue. If, after a period of time, few orders came in for it, it was dropped. I also have to believe he was aware of Ford’s assembly line efficiency and worked to minimize the # of configurations and custom offerings, although I am not familiar with how similar car and saw making production processes were or the effect on labor and costs.

    Let me me just say that your expertise and extensive collection are not lost on this SMC member. I am, however, a bit in awe that you can see a saw in a vintage catalog, and then actually find it in your vast collection ��!

    P.S. never noticed this on the Disstonian site until now...nice work, Pete.
    ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS: Information on manufacturing dates comes from Erv Schaffer's book Handsaw Makers of North America, ©1999, Osage Press. Information on manufacturing dates of saw medallions is the research of Pete Taran, and was published in "The Fine Tool Journal". Check out Pete's website.
    Last edited by Phil Mueller; 08-19-2018 at 8:55 AM.

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