Is posting videos on youtube showing second-rate skills or results fine with you?

[Rick McQuay]

Youtube is a forum, but with video instead of words only. It takes a lot of guts to put yourself out there and make something in the public eye. There are always people who can do it better. It's also a tremendous amount of work to make a woodworking video, worrying about lighting, sound, camera angles, shot composition, editing, etc. That said, what disappoints me is that so many young people have come to rely on YT as a source for learning. There are many videos from the 80s, 90s, 2000s, created by professionals that properly teach woodworking. For awhile someone was uploading those old videos to YT, and getting shut down within weeks. On the one hand it's piracy and I don't support that but many of those old videos are not available on DVD and not available for purchase (to my knowledge) and it is an opportunity for people to get proper woodworking instruction.

[Jim Koepke]

There are many videos from the 80s, 90s, 2000s, created by professionals that properly teach woodworking. For awhile someone was uploading those old videos to YT, and getting shut down within weeks.

There are two principles at work here. For the above there are copyright laws which an owner has the right to protection of their property. The second, as it pertains to video that some may deem not worth the wasted bandwidth, is the first amendment.

At least amateur hour is free.

jtk

[James Pallas]

Somewhere in the world people are doing things that we consider wrong or dangerous. The net shows all of it good terrible or just so so. I have no idea how you could police it. We just have to do the same that our parents did with us and TV. Try to explain that it is entertainment and everything you see is not real. You will however still have those that jump off the barn wearing a bedsheet cape playing superman.
Jim

[Rob Luter]

They do this on the Barnwood Builders TV program.

It is how the corners of log building are put together. They are cut so there is always a downward slope so water will not sit in the joint.

jtk

Yep. Good show.

[James Waldron]

I have an issue when someone demonstrates objectively poor advice or technique. [snip] There is no benefit to such content.

Peter

Well, at least you got your money's worth. And the poster earned his due from your viewing.

As long as we remember that the Internet does not have an editorial staff, we know to take care in our choice to rely on what we find there. And we all retain the freedom to move on as soon as we recognize that a post is of no or questionable value. If someone were holding a gun to your head and forcing you to watch or charging you a fee to watch, you would have cause to complain. If you choose to watch, for free, it's on you.

I would also offer this thought: if you are so knowledgeable about the topic that you know the content is so wrong, why are you wasting your time watching it in the first place? If you get your edges sharp enough to shave hair, you have no need to be watching basic instruction on how to sharpen. If your dovetails have a sliding fit off the saw, "how to cut dovetails" videos aren't going to improve your dovetailing. If you look a bit farther, there are a lot of other topics that you might learn about without repeating lessons (good or bad) about stuff you have already mastered. But be careful, the new lessons need to be evaluated with care, because they may be wrong and you won't know it until you look into them.

In short, move on, learn, grow.

[Jim Koepke]

I would also offer this thought: if you are so knowledgeable about the topic that you know the content is so wrong, why are you wasting your time watching it in the first place? If you get your edges sharp enough to shave hair, you have no need to be watching basic instruction on how to sharpen.

Yes, my sharpening gets to the point of shaving hair clean and smooth. How ever there still remains a possibility some individual spark of knowledge might be gleaned from watching the techniques employed by others.

No, my hours are not spent bleary eyed watching videos of cute cats sharpening chisels. Just the same, my mind remains open to the possibility of how even a fool may have a gem worth sharing.

jtk

[Rick McQuay]

... there are copyright laws which an owner has the right to protection of their property.

jtk

You cut the part where I wrote, "...it's piracy and I don't support that..." The admonishment was unnecessary.

[Frederick Skelly]

You cut the part where I wrote, "...it's piracy and I don't support that..." The admonishment was unnecessary.

Rick, I think you may have misunderstood Mr. Koepke's intent. (Easy to do, just reading what folks write and not having other cues.) I think he was saying why he thought those good vids were taken down from YT. I dont think he was dinging YOU about violating copyright laws, at all. Jim's one of the nicest, most helpful people on the forum. It would be out of character for him to scold someone here at SMC - he's too polite for that. Go read some samples of his other posts and you'll see what I mean.

Hope maybe that helps.
Fred

[Heck. Jim doesnt even argue with PATRICK! EVERYBODY argues with or teases Patrick! ]

[Patrick Chase]

[Heck. Jim doesnt even argue with PATRICK! EVERYBODY argues with or teases Patrick! ]

Ooh, I feel a burning sensation.

I can't touch this thread with a 10-foot pole now that it's veered into YT takedown policies.

[Chris Parks]

I love Youtube, I think it is the greatest educational source on the internet but if I start watching and the presenter says "What's up Youtubers" or similar it get the finger and I move on. There is some truly awesome stuff there for those who are lucky enough to find it and I think the video reference thread is a great resource because we all have our favorites, Clickspring being mine even though it is not wood work and I don't own a metal lathe and never will. It simply has the best production values and anyone considering doing a video should watch it before starting.

I think any subject gets played out eventually, magazines of a single hobby like wood working are an example of that, exactly how many ways can DT's or M&T etc be shown is one of life's mysteries and leads to bad content as everyone jumps on the bandwagon.

For your viewing pleasure, enjoy....

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwo...Sx6R6-BnIjS2MA

[Patrick Chase]

It simply has the best production values and anyone considering doing a video should watch it before starting.

The thing with production values is that they mostly reflect skills that have nothing whatsoever to do with woodworking. I can produce a half-competently lit, shot, and edited video, but none of that has anything do with woodworking. Meanwhile certain people on SMC, or formerly on in the case of David, produce stuff that a video snob would consider horribly amateurish, but that is still far better in terms of actual woodworking content than I could do. I sort of get a kick out of it every time David messes up on one of his videos precisely because he doesn't take mulligans.

I'm not competent to evaluate clickspring's skills as a machinist or clock maker, but it's certainly well executed and fun to watch. Two things that he gets right are lightning and angles. His shots highlight the subject matter in a way that consistently illustrates what he's talking about, and that's harder than it sounds.

[Chris Parks]

When he started Clickspring had no experience at video whatsoever so it can be learned, in fact he had no machining or clock making skills either, he bought a lathe in from a hardware store and started to learn everything you see from scratch. Some people have just got it, I will never have what "it" is but I can admire those who do. To me taking the time to learn how to present is what makes a YT video enjoyable, those who learn it are the ones we generally gravitate too and they usually give good advice.

[Jim Koepke]

Rick, I think you may have misunderstood Mr. Koepke's intent.

Thank you Frederick.

Rick, I was not trying to admonish you. My intent was to point out the good folks at Youtube do not have much choice in leaving a pirated video up on their service. Sorry my clipping of your post caused any misunderstanding.

Even though I try not to upset people, on the internet just like the rest of life it sometimes happens.

jtk

[Rick McQuay]

Thank you Frederick.

Rick, I was not trying to admonish you. My intent was to point out the good folks at Youtube do not have much choice in leaving a pirated video up on their service. Sorry my clipping of your post caused any misunderstanding.

Even though I try not to upset people, on the internet just like the rest of life it sometimes happens.

jtk

No harm, no foul. I'm happy that my concerns were unfounded.

I just wish many of those old videos were readily available to the public legally. I've been woodworking since the 80's and I still learn things when watching anyone who is very skilled and able to communicate that skill to others.

My concern about the internet, and it's a bit of a rant, is that more value is placed on repetition than reputation. If a bad idea or woodworking myth takes hold in a forum, on reddit, on youtube, or wherever, it's difficult to dislodge.

[Charles Guest]

No harm, no foul. I'm happy that my concerns were unfounded.

I just wish many of those old videos were readily available to the public legally. I've been woodworking since the 80's and I still learn things when watching anyone who is very skilled and able to communicate that skill to others.

My concern about the internet, and it's a bit of a rant, is that more value is placed on repetition than reputation. If a bad idea or woodworking myth takes hold in a forum, on reddit, on youtube, or wherever, it's difficult to dislodge.

A lot of bad technique and general lack of real craft skills can eventually result in a completed woodworking project with enough time, tools, material, etc. thrown at it. Not much good about that. It puzzles me why would anybody want to watch a video of it, or think that it adds value in any meaningful way.