Why are we still teaching algebra?

[Bill Dufour]

I was in OSH today a couple in their 50's asked me if I was good at percentages. Is said yes and they asked me how much $9.99 tub would be with the 15% close out price discount. They both had calculators on their phones and were not sure. I though a few seconds .85 cents on the dollar so $8.50 plus tax so a little over $9.00 after tax.
Not sure if that is algebra or just simple percent,but still math they could not do with a calculator.
I notice many stores sell items for like .99 or two shrink wrapped together for 1.99. I always save my pennies.
Bill D

[Robert Hazelwood]

I would consider that informal algebra. You had to understand the relationship between all of the numbers in order to knew what steps to take, which is fundamental to actually using math. Their calculator was perfectly capable of crunching the numbers but they didn't know what to punch in.

Discount Price = (1-Discount Rate)*Original Price

You did the (1-Discount Rate) in your head to get "85 cents on the dollar". The fact that the original price was $10 made it easy to solve.

[Brett Luna]

I've used a lot of algebra in the 40 years since high school, in both vocation and avocations. I've also used geometry (both vanilla and analytical), trigonometry, and even boolean algebra. But then, I maintained USAF avionic sensors for many years and I was an electronics/computer hobbyist and a model rocketeer. I also learned drafting/mechanical drawing in high school, the old fashioned way: with a t-square, triangles, and a slide rule. Yeah. Nerd.

I actually got a D in algebra the first time I took it, so I opted to take it again and also talked the counselor into letting me take physics the same year. That's when it clicked...with the application. It went from being a pain to putting another tool in my bag.

In all this time I've learned a couple of things.

2 + 2 = 5, where quantities of two are sufficiently large

and

There are 10 kinds of people in this world: those who understand binary and those who don't.

[Pete Staehling]

As an engineer, I have used algebra my entire career. To me, that question is the same as asking why we still teach people to read.

My thoughts ran along the same lines. I was kind of shocked to read the original post and found it hard to imagine anyone that managed to attain any level of mastery of algebra didn't find it useful in their daily life.

[Larry Frank]

There was an article this week about a study done by Bankrate and listed the best and worse college majors. The answer to the question about algebra is in the article and has to do with income and employment rates.

This is a great article for parents to discuss with their kids when discussing college choices.

I want to also say that college is certainly not the right choice for everyone. However, many of the non-college career paths are helped greatly by understanding algebra.

[Bill Dufour]

When I worked at the lab I used to get bank notices offering to loan me money to go to graduate school. They would offer loans for many years all the way to advanced medical degrees. But they spelled out not for philosophy or sociology majors.
Bill D.

[Jacob Reverb]

Golly, I use algebra all the time.

If you're not going to teach algebra, then why teach addition, subtraction, multiplication or division, either? Because it's almost as common, and just as indispensable. [Shaking head]

Seriously, who doesn't use algebra on a weekly basis at least?

[Bob Glenn]

With all the algebraic equations floating around in this thread, I guess if you have minus two apples, then I give you two apples, then you end up with no apples even though I just gave you two.

You can complicate this all you want, your choice. I choose to keep things simple. Good thing I don't have to calculate the decay rate of radioactive isotopes in a non linear situation.

[Brett Luna]

You can complicate this all you want, your choice. I choose to keep things simple. Good thing I don't have to calculate the decay rate of radioactive isotopes in a non linear situation.

A favorite 'quote' of mine, often attributed Albert Einstein: "Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler."

Basic algebra is not that complicated and it's a useful tool to have for so many things...and not just college. I'm glad that it's taught because high school should be a challenge. If our young folks can't rise to that challenge, I think maybe we're doing something wrong.

[Roger Feeley]

I taught High School for eight years and my answer to kids griping about never needing this or that was the same:

When are you ever going to use push-ups? No one is ever going to hire you to be a push-up specialist. You do push-ups to build strength in a part of your body so you can then do something else. It's the same with Algebra, Chemistry, Foreign Language or any subject. These subjects will build up strengths and skills in parts of your brain.

You are in High School now and parts of your brain, if not exercised, are already starting to atrophy. Brain science tells us that if you don't assimilate a second language by puberty, it's very hard for you to learn a foreign language later in life. Look at immigrant families where the young children pick up English with ease and older parents struggle all their lives. Conversely, my son-in-law was born in Moscow and emigrated to Canada when he was four. He learned English in Toronto and now speaks six languages fluently.

So, yes, you may never have a use for Algebra but that part of your brain will always be available to you and your reasoning abilities will be stronger. Just like doing push-ups makes it easier for you to play Basketball or Tennis or a million other things.

It always seemed to satisfy them.

[John K Jordan]

Good thing I don't have to calculate the decay rate of radioactive isotopes in a non linear situation.

It's not that hard. But it's usually no problem - even 45 years ago I didn't need any math when I needed to know the radioactive strength of a source (in my case of iridium-192 and cobalt-60). Everyone used tables. (Maybe they have an app these days.) The person who made the tables was the one who had to be literate.

[Phillip Gregory]

When was the last time you used algebra? I got C's and D's in algebra but aced geometry which I use all the time while wood working. The grandson has a five year degree from Purdue in food science and had to take endless algebra, trig, and calculus classes. He holds several patents. I asked him when was the last time he used algebra. He just gave me a blank look. Told me he had several thousand dollars wrapped up in books and classes in those subjects.

So, we mostly did away with shop class and home economics and now a lot of people can't change a light bulb or car tire, but we still retain algebra classes in high school. Maybe it just one of those hoops you have to jump through to qualify for the next higher level.

I last used algebra the last time a few minutes before I left work. I work in healthcare, which is a field notorious for the Barbie sentiment of "Math is haaaaard!" You have somebody using 3 of something per day and you need a month's worth. x quantity/month = 30 days/month * 3 ea/day. Hmm, solve for x, that is algebra! Just because it isn't polynomials or factoring doesn't mean it's not algebra.

Doing away with shop class and home economics is equally stupid as doing away with algebra. I can't say that I've used my college classes on differential equations very much since graduating, but simpler math such as algebra, and for woodworkers, trig, gets used a lot. Shoot, calculus even gets some use if you have to figure out any sort of statics/strengths or fluids problems- which is pretty common in the skilled trades, but many don't really realize that is really what they are doing (they are using the derived formulas and constants to do the calculations, or using lookup tables.)

There are many things that schools concentrate on today that are actually worthless, but algebra is not one of them.

[Steve H Graham]

The other day, I read that Bill Nye (non-scientist with bachelor's degree in mechanical engineering) had said something really stupid about the New England Patriots "Deflategate" scandal. I sat down and used algebra and the ideal gas law to prove he was wrong.

His screwup was major. It was like an ENT giving a patient birth control pills instead of antibiotics for strep throat. Total incompetence. I kind of wonder what kind of program he attended, where they didn't get around to the ideal gas law.

When I was in junior high and high school, I hated math classes because I didn't do any homework. Without practice, exams are hard. I got a D in Algebra II, and I believe I got an F in something called Math Analysis, which was a higher-level course.

When I was about 30, I went back to college after a rather long hiatus, and I decided to become a veterinarian. I had forgotten all about my earlier problems with math. In order to get through calculus and physics, I had to learn algebra at the same time.

I ended up getting a physics degree with a math minor, and then I went to graduate school.

I have used my skills in hobbies and elsewhere. I took up building tube amplifiers for guitars, and my background helped.

The moral of the story is that you shouldn't assume the math courses you take in school are useless. When you're a teenager, you're just too stupid to make calls like that.

I thought math was horrible. I was a little idiot.

In contrast, many trendy liberal arts course ARE useless or even harmful, and when it comes to college, they are certainly expensive.

[Bob Glenn]

I last used algebra the last time a few minutes before I left work. I work in healthcare, which is a field notorious for the Barbie sentiment of "Math is haaaaard!" You have somebody using 3 of something per day and you need a month's worth. x quantity/month = 30 days/month * 3 ea/day. Hmm, solve for x, that is algebra! Just because it isn't polynomials or factoring doesn't mean it's not algebra.

Doing away with shop class and home economics is equally stupid as doing away with algebra. I can't say that I've used my college classes on differential equations very much since graduating, but simpler math such as algebra, and for woodworkers, trig, gets used a lot. Shoot, calculus even gets some use if you have to figure out any sort of statics/strengths or fluids problems- which is pretty common in the skilled trades, but many don't really realize that is really what they are doing (they are using the derived formulas and constants to do the calculations, or using lookup tables.)

There are many things that schools concentrate on today that are actually worthless, but algebra is not one of them.

Ahhhhhhh. 3 times 30 is algebra? Anyone can over complicate things as we are seeing. Just sayin.......

[Jim Koepke]

Everyone used tables. (Maybe they have an app these days.) The person who made the tables was the one who had to be literate.

A trig table is kept in the shop. The only calculator out there is of the slip stick variety. The trig tables are used to calculate as needed.

Just have to remember things like Chief Soh Cah Toa, Eli the Ice man and the eye (I) seeing the eagle (E) over the rabbit (R) I=E/R.

jtk