[OP]
Contributor
So this is mostly hypothetical.
If you were to have a plane collection build on decent user vintage planes but could buy one premium LN or LV what would it be?
A no 4 because of the advantages of perfectly tuned smoother plane?
A specialty like a shooting plane and tracks for a shooting board?
A low angle jack?
Which one new premium plane would you get to supplement rust hunting?
Member
I just added a LV low angle jack a couple of months ago.
For me, the hardest plane to refurbish would be a Jointer. Therefore, I'd probably again buy a LV BU Jointer or LN #7. A Jack to me is a rough plane and I've fettled a good Stanley #4. Oddly enough though, I use specialty planes (Record 44, 50,788 and LN 48&49) almost as much as bench planes.
Contributor
Good points. I would, however, go with the No. 4 bronze, because you can't get that in rust hunting.Originally Posted by Don Dorn
Member
I have mostly premium planes, but if my cost constraints were such that I could only afford one then I'd focus on cases where collectors have driven up the prices on the classic tools to the point where they cost as much as or more than a new plane. Some obvious examples include the 1, 2/602, 10-1/4, 51, 62, and 164. Note however that all of these are arguably non-essential planes, so which to get would depend on which you need. Probably the most commonly chosen among those are the 62, 164, and 51 (or it's low angle LV counterpart) in roughly that order. People who do small work (or who have small workers in their family) might put one or both of the small smoothers in that list.
Maybe, but only if you think you're at a point where you can get practical advantage from it. It's hard to beat a design that benefitted from over a half-century of refinement before it started going downhill, and the Stanley 4 is remarkably easy to tune to perfection. The only thing that some of my premium smoothers can do that a Stanley can't is adjust the frog angle. I have a 4-1/2 set up with a 40 deg frog, that leaves surface sheen to die for (IMO) and that would be high on my list if starting over, but even so it's a fairly marginal improvement.
This is an obvious choice, but if your budget is tight enough that you need to limit yourself to one expensive plane then you have to ask if a dedicated shooter is worth it at all.
A few years ago I would have answered this with an unqualified "yes", but if I had it to do over I'd have bought a BD jack with a low-angle frog instead. Of course there are only two such options that I know of (a 5 and a 5-1/2) and those are also premium planes.
Last edited by Patrick Chase; 01-30-2018 at 11:29 PM.
Contributor
A bevel down jointer as the vintage ones fetch good money, so the price difference for new is not so bad. I would like to think the new ones would be flatter but that proved wrong with one brand then right with another. Vintage jointer planes seem harder to find.
Tried BU in two sizes but have now gone back to BD.
Newer planes have thicker blades than vintage, so take a bit longer to sharpen. As the jointer is the least used you won't mind sharpening it! If your most used plane is very time consuming to sharpen you will get much less work done.
You can do a lot with very little! You can do a little more with a lot!
Member
Brandon,
If you have a working collection of Stanleys why would you need to buy a LN or LV plane? The LN are heavy, with thick A2 cutters that require, most likely, a complete change of your sharpening system. I have most of the LN's they sit in the till and most of the time I use the Stanleys only pulling out the LN when I'm trying to decide if I'm going to sell them. The LV's are nice planes with a O1 iron available but I've never felt any love for Norris adjusters so they sit on the shelf most of the time as well. The one exception is the shooting plane from either LN or LV and that is because when you find a good Stanley #51 it costs as much or more than a new LN.
Of course as always YMMV.
ken
Member
I have 604, 605, and a 607 Bedrock planes. They have Veritas Irons and Breakers. I consider them to be top of the line planes.
Member
IMO they're already extremely good planes without the aftermarket irons. For that matter so are the Bailey-pattern 4, 5, and 7.
As has been noted many times the Stanley cap iron is actually better configured for tearout control "out of the box" than any of the current aftermarket options, and IMO iron thickness is highly overrated. If it were truly beneficial they would have done it back in the day. I have a LOT of LV irons and like them quite a lot, but the Stanley irons on my classic planes are also very good and don't need replacement.
Contributor
Hi Brandon,
I would get the Premium Low Angle Jack. The vintage Stanley is pricey enough that it would be expensive to buy the vintage plane, so I would get one of the good new planes.
It would primarily be for end grain, and primarily a shooting plane.
I currently don't have one, but will have some kind of premium low angle jack some day, Lord willing.
A good Bailey, or even a bedrock in some cases, Smoother, jack/fore, or jointer plane, can be had for less than a vintage Stanley LA Jack, all things being the same.
For that reason, a LA jack would fit the bill, and fill in a gap in my planes. My planes are all users, no collectors. I have restored some of them to very nice condition, but they are users, not collectors.
Stew
Last edited by Stew Denton; 01-31-2018 at 12:23 AM.
Member
He'd only looking at complete change if he's using natural stones. If he's already on Al-Oxide or harder and has a motorized grinder for coarse work then he'll be OK with thick A2 irons.
With that said I prefer Stanley HCS or PM-V11 to A2 because they're easier to bring to a very fine edge. I dislike the fact that I have to resort to diamond films/compounds to get the very best possible edge out of my LN irons, and as you say that's a disincentive to use them. One of these days I'll get around to replacing the iron in my LN #3.
Contributor
My approach was to only buy premium planes when the cost of an original item was too high or it was difficult to find a good user. My desire to have one of each bench plane is why my LN #1 was purchased. If a decent user Stanley #1 came my way the LN would likely be put up for sale. My need to lessen the effort used for shooting end grain was my reason to purchase a low angle jack plane, LN #62. My LN #60 was bought because getting a decent used low angle block plane can be difficult. Especially if one is picky like me. It is a nice plane but a bit heavy for my liking. My other low angle block planes are used just as much.
So to answer your question about which premium plane to buy. Buy the one you can't find on the vintage market or do not want to have to restore from the vintage market.
That could depend on what you do. Do you need a shooting plane? A plow plane? A good rabbet plane?
jtk
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
- Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)
Contributor
You should know that these discussions require bullet proof underwear!So this is mostly hypothetical.
One premium plane? What should it be - a smoother or jointer, or a joinery plane.
The three planes that top my list are, not in any order, the Veritas Custom #4, Custom #7 and Large Router Plane.
Why these? Well, we all like a sportscar, and the #4 is a Porsche 911. Mine has a 42 degree frog for improved smoothness, PM-V11 blade for improved edge-holding, and an easy-to-set chipbreaker to control tearout in the gnarliest of woods. The #7 is a four-wheel drive: take it anywhere. Mine has a 40 degree frog and is at home planing edges with interlocked grain, or shooting end grain on a shooting board. In the past I preferred the BU Jointer, which is a great plane, but the Custom #7 does much more. The Large Router Plane is simply the best router plane ever manufactured. The times when you use it will be appreciated. Unlike the #4 or #7, there is little competition (the LN is a very good router plane, but not quite up there with the Veritas).
Regards from Perth
Derek
Member
The LN low angle adjustable mounts block (or LV equivalent), and some of the small specialty blocks. Had all the Stanley and Record blocks courtesy of inheritance or tag sales and they work OK, but the LN's feel a little more solid in hand and shrug off a dive from the second floor of a timber frame to concrete. The other speciality blocks, such as the smaller so-called apron planes and model makers planes are likewise improvements over what appear to have been seen more as toys by some toolmakers. That said, an hour with a couple files can make even a Kunz usable.
Agree on the plane weight issue - if female and not built like Ronda Rousey, or male and on the frail side, those extra ounces of metal can make a difference in how quickly those arm and shoulder muscles grow. ;-)
Contributor
Some of this depends on the work you do, doesn't it? If you don't dimension your own lumber then a long premium plane could end up sitting on the shelf. Same thing for specialty planes. So I like the argument above about buying the thing you really could use that is expensive on the used market.
On the other hand, sometimes it's nice to just have a really nice version of the tool you use the most. Time and again I've considered an LN #4 to retire my MF#9. But the #9 is a family "heirloom" that I've tuned into a really nice smoother. Or a set of LV/LN/Isles chisels to replace my Marples Blue Chips - but geez, the Marples work just fine for me.
Great hypothetical question! It was fun to think about.
Fred
Last edited by Frederick Skelly; 01-31-2018 at 6:48 AM.
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