How do you guys get Aldi chisels to hold up?

[John C Cox]

My problem is that even when I think I mostly know what to look for - I still end up with with 50% that don't hold up particularly better than Aldi chisels...

I suppose that's fine when you are collecting them... And in that case having a complete set in the best condition is much more important than how each one performs on wood... I totally get that. There's nothing wrong with that... Collecting is a perfectly valid pursuit... But it's not what I am doing...

And for me - having a mixmaster stack of chisels that cut well is more important than having some specific maker, markings, or vintage. I am mostly there - I just need a really good 3/4" chisel.

[ken hatch]

My problem is that even when I think I mostly know what to look for - I still end up with with 50% that don't hold up particularly better than Aldi chisels...

I suppose that's fine when you are collecting them... And in that case having a complete set in the best condition is much more important than how each one performs on wood... I totally get that. There's nothing wrong with that... Collecting is a perfectly valid pursuit... But it's not what I am doing...

And for me - having a mixmaster stack of chisels that cut well is more important than having some specific maker, markings, or vintage. I am mostly there - I just need a really good 3/4" chisel.

John,

You didn't post what kind of "...really good 3/4" chisel". Is it Western, new, turn of the last Century or earlier, Japanese, Japanese push, #1 White, #2 White, Blue, HSS, bevel edge, firmer, Butt, Paring/Pattern Makers, O1, A2, PM-v11, mystery steel, and so on. I'm sure there are many I missed. BTW, each can have a place in the shop and not be collector chisels.

One of my most used chisel, one that stays on the work bench, never in one of the chisel racks, is a Woodriver mystery steel 3/4" crank neck. Go figure.

ken

[ken hatch]

Ken; is this the set of paring chisels you purchased from the u.k.

Stewie,

Not the same ones. The ones I purchased are flat necked pre WWII chisels. They look to be in about the same condition as those if the photos do not lie.

ken

[Tony Zaffuto]

I have a set of four Woodriver butt style chisels that take and hold an edge as well as any of my other tools.

[steven c newman]

Said things used to be said about.."Made in Japan" and Made in Taiwan......did they not.....how xeno of you.....

[steven c newman]

Have four chisels sitting at my desk, right now...one called Muller and marked as a 22mm. Another has JAPAN stamped on the back, near the oval bolster, steel ferrel..and is also stamped as a Drop forged Steel (unable to read the line under it) and marked as 1/2

Then there are two with a blue and silver label on the handles. They are stamped as Germany BRIT. Zone Drop forged. Both of these and the JAPAN chisel have a leather washer on the mallet end of their handles...Muller has a thin steel ring. I doubt IF any of these four has any of that "Chinese Steel" people here are so afraid of....

Give me a couple minutes, to get a few pictures, IF you need to see them.

[steven c newman]

Pictures.
Attachment 387511Attachment 387512Attachment 387513Attachment 387514Attachment 387515Attachment 387516
Don't think there is any trace of that "Chinese Steel" in these....British Zone, Germany, right after WW2. Muller is now a part of a French company. JAPAN may have been post-WW2....

[Jim Koepke]

And for me - having a mixmaster stack of chisels that cut well is more important than having some specific maker, markings, or vintage. I am mostly there - I just need a really good 3/4" chisel.

My old Buck Brothers chisels work fine for me. Not sure of the current product, but Craftsman Studios carries them and they seem a decent deal:

http://www.craftsmanstudio.com/Buck-...07311-base.htm

Buck Bros at Craftsman.png

The 3/4" is listed as in stock.

The bench chisels are lower priced:

http://www.craftsmanstudio.com/Buck-...m?1=1&CartID=0

Bench Chisels.png

Not sure how the "Mfg's Lifetime Warrantee" works, but sounds like if they aren't up to snuff you can send them back.

jtk

[John C Cox]

Those current production Buck Bro's chisels are simply wooden handled versions of the ones available in Orange BORG.... They can be quite good if you get the occasional hard one... But the normal ones running Rc 56-57 are in the same ballpark as Aldi.. I have one particular example of this very Perfection by mistake! A 1" Buck O BORG which came in a smidge harder than a Two Cherries and it really does hold up and cut very well...

Another test of a different vintage chisel.... I think I finally dug out a good 3/4" model...
A "Mr. punch" marked I Sorby ran 30 grams of birch plywood before end grain spruce started crumbling a bit... It would still pare plywood easily... Double over the Aldi seemed like a fine place to stop and resharpen... Though I could have gone a lot longer...

The Aldi was dead at 14 grams - it wouldn't pare anything anymore...

So I now have 2 vintage chisels tested which will easily over double the performance of the Aldi and the current Marples.. I still haven't got around to testing my AI, Two Cherries, or Pfeil to see how they do, though...

The thing is - there is no magic... It's like any other tools made for professionals who worked to a production rate for a living. If the tools wouldn't keep up with the rate - nobody bought them...

[Jim Koepke]

Those current production Buck Bro's chisels are simply wooden handled versions of the ones available in Orange BORG

The Orange BORG chisels are made in the USA?

My tendency is to usually just walk on by without looking. Guess on my next visit some time will be spent looking. The Buck Brothers plane blades they used to carry for $3 were decent, my recollection is they were from Mexico or China.

jtk

[John C Cox]

Yep - the yellow handle BORG Buck Bro's chisels are still made in the USA.. There are orange handle ones from China..

[John C Cox]

So another update on the almost never ending saga of the Aldi chisels that wouldn't hold up...

TLDR: I re-tempered thd one I tested before (not rehardened) and it over doubled the wood cutting performance of the chisel. It also changed from rolling edges to lightly chipping. Apparently mine aren't sufficiently tempered to convert retained austenite.

----

My last hypothesis was improper tempering leading to excessive retained austenite - creating a mushy edge even though bulk hardness should be adequate...

So to test that - I knocked the blade out of it's handle and tempered at 480F for 1 hour... Cooled off, resharpened, and tested it on plywood. This is the same one I tested the 1st time - different than the one I rehardened...

This time - it went 28 grams of plywood before dulling to the point where it crumbles spruce paring. But it would still cut plywood - though not as well as the old I Sorby..
For reference - the first try on this one was a completely dead edge at 14 grams

So re-tempering it to convert retained austenite (over) doubled the cutting life of the edge. The interesting thing is that the bulk hardness is the same as well as I can tell..

The other interesting thing is that the failure mode is completely different now - it lightly chipped instead of rolling the edge. That's consistent with "Martensite embrittlement"... I am going to use it some more to see if it continues after a few sharpenings.

If the other 2 Aldi chisels respond the same (they are in the oven now) - I will revise my opinion of Aldi chisels from "Junk" to "A kit that you can get good chisels out of"...

Thanks

[Pat Barry]

So another update on the almost never ending saga of the Aldi chisels that wouldn't hold up...

TLDR: I re-tempered thd one I tested before (not rehardened) and it over doubled the wood cutting performance of the chisel. It also changed from rolling edges to lightly chipping. Apparently mine aren't sufficiently tempered to convert retained austenite.

----

My last hypothesis was improper tempering leading to excessive retained austenite - creating a mushy edge even though bulk hardness should be adequate...

So to test that - I knocked the blade out of it's handle and tempered at 480F for 1 hour... Cooled off, resharpened, and tested it on plywood. This is the same one I tested the 1st time - different than the one I rehardened...

This time - it went 28 grams of plywood before dulling to the point where it crumbles spruce paring. But it would still cut plywood - though not as well as the old I Sorby..
For reference - the first try on this one was a completely dead edge at 14 grams

So re-tempering it to convert retained austenite (over) doubled the cutting life of the edge. The interesting thing is that the bulk hardness is the same as well as I can tell..

The other interesting thing is that the failure mode is completely different now - it lightly chipped instead of rolling the edge. That's consistent with "Martensite embrittlement"... I am going to use it some more to see if it continues after a few sharpenings.

If the other 2 Aldi chisels respond the same (they are in the oven now) - I will revise my opinion of Aldi chisels from "Junk" to "A kit that you can get good chisels out of"...

Thanks

Curious what you mean by 28 grams vs 14 grams in plywood?

[John C Cox]

I pared off end grain plywood. That's the weight of the plywood shavings.

[Tony Zaffuto]

I pared off end grain plywood. That's the weight of the plywood shavings.

John,

Out of curiosity, what is your background?

Thx,

T.Z.