Tenon tooling for shaper...

[peter gagliardi]

I forgot to mention, a couple sets of dado blades with the correct spacer in between can and does work pretty well also.

[Joe Calhoon]

Joe,

Does anyone make a small diameter, full kerf, rip blade? I setup my Bridgeport for tenoning in the same way that you do the shaper, but the saw blades I've been using are .080 kerf and the plates aren't really as stiff as I would prefer them to be. Are you using a full kerf blade?

Brian,

how small? Most tooling companies will make custom saw blades. Zuani has made some small diameter blades for bead removal. These are in the 6” range. You might try Vexor in Denver. Thicker- heavier blades work better for this. I have a couple 3 mm kerf blades for the shaper and they get to fluttering if cutting too deep.

Another method for cost saving or if your shaper is not up to the task is a simple jig for the sliding saw. Adjust it with the fence stops and clamp it to the table or fence.

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[Jeff Duncan]

Thanks guys.... lots of info here to digest! Shaper's up to the task, I'll do it on the SCM.... 9hp and can sink a 12" diameter head under the table. I just don't want to break the bank on tooling I may not get a lot of use out of. I'm already having to drop a chunk of cash on a hollow chisel mortiser once I find one, (another thing I'll not likely get much use out of), but being historical work these tenons and mortises need to be square edge, so my slot mortiser is out I'm going to call Monday and see what shipping from the UK would cost.... damn shame as I just came back from there 2 weeks ago! I'll also check around for used.... hadn't even thought of that!

Table saw would be trickier as my dado's and tenon jig are all for the 10" saw, nothing for the 12". Also doing the longer pieces, (60"), could be a bit tricky as they may hit the overhead dust collection. Doing them with the sliding table is/could be an option. Will be more time consuming, but could save me a bunch of cash.

Anyway I'll have to re-read this thread a couple times over the weekend and put some thought into it.... thanks all!

JeffD

[Brian Holcombe]

Thanks Joe! I'll check into both of those brands, I use a 7" blade now and probably will stick with that size. I'm also probably going to buy a 1.25" arbor for the machine.

Jeff,

I use a Bridgeport mill for the rip cuts with a saw blade, which is very similar to Joe's method of using a shaper with saw blades except that using a shaper would be much much faster. Then cut the shoulders on the sliding saw, easy and 80 tenons will go exceptionally quickly.

[Mark Hennebury]

If this is just a one time deal, why not just farm it out to someone who has a tenoner. It's a pretty quick job for someone with the equipment.

Some years back i did all of the tenons and mortises for 300 bunk bed sets for a customer. It would have been hard for them to set up and do it, and was a piece of cake for me.

Why are you thinking about a hollow chisel mortiser and not a swing chisel mortiser like a Maka?

[Darcy Warner]

If this is just a one time deal, why not just farm it out to someone who has a tenoner. It's a pretty quick job for someone with the equipment.

Some years back i did all of the tenons and mortises for 300 bunk bed sets for a customer. It would have been hard for them to set up and do it, and was a piece of cake for me.

Why are you thinking about a hollow chisel mortiser and not a swing chisel mortiser like a Maka?

Might take 30 minutes to set up and maybe 30 minutes to run on a tenoner.

For some reason I have 8. Not sure how that happened

[Brian Holcombe]

If this is just a one time deal, why not just farm it out to someone who has a tenoner. It's a pretty quick job for someone with the equipment.

Some years back i did all of the tenons and mortises for 300 bunk bed sets for a customer. It would have been hard for them to set up and do it, and was a piece of cake for me.

Why are you thinking about a hollow chisel mortiser and not a swing chisel mortiser like a Maka?

I'll second Mark's recommendation on the Maka, much cleaner result much much faster.

[Mark Hennebury]

Okay Darcy, you have to do a thread on your tenoners. You cant just throw that out and not show us.

Might take 30 minutes to set up and maybe 30 minutes to run on a tenoner.

For some reason I have 8. Not sure how that happened

[Darcy Warner]

Okay Darcy, you have to do a thread on your tenoners. You cant just throw that out and not show us.

I have 3 532 greenlee's, a very early motor drive 505 F&E, a wadkin, a milbury, something else and a Danckaert

[Mark Hennebury]

A Wadkin What?

I have 3 532 greenlee's, a very early motor drive 505 F&E, a wadkin, a milbury, something else and a Danckaert

[Darcy Warner]

A Wadkin What?

ECA 3 head.

[Joe Calhoon]

Heck, don’t stop with old school push pull tenoners that are a bear to setup. Go modern with one that will do the work of 8 old units with no setup and a fraction of the floor space.
here is a video of making 2) 3 panel fold slide units and a 2 panel lift slide unit. All 68mm thick out of knotty white oak.
i was running in manual mode because it was a simple job. In auto everything is calculated automatically. Part length, tenon depth, quantities and part widths. This job is using the tenoner in combination with the shaper for profiling. The next step up is a angle machine that does both profiling and tenoning.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EXC3U7jtFWY

[Joe Calhoon]

Shaper tenons are still my preferred for custom one off work, especially entry doors. Depending on the shaper, setup is quick and tenon thickness is calculated with no test cuts because it is just a matter of knowing your spacer thickness between the disks. Automatic tenoner is quicker because it is cutting parts to length. Shaper you have to pre cut to length and set the tenon depth. I think for most folks on this forum, small pro shops and hobby shops a tenoner is not a option but a good shaper is a useful machine for a lot of different operations.

For square edge tenons on shaper if doing more than one door I usually set up and cut the haunches first using the same cutters. This will save a little work later.

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[Mark Hennebury]

Hi Joe, nice setup.

I'm Interested in the tenoner;
Whats the HP on the tenoner spindle?
what size is the spindle.?
what is the maximum stack?
Are you climb cutting? As you don't have a backer board.
Do you use the cut-off saw to cut to length or use precut?
Is the height setting computer controlled?
How accurate / repeatable is it?

[Joe Calhoon]

Hi Joe, nice setup.

I'm Interested in the tenoner;
Whats the HP on the tenoner spindle?
what size is the spindle.?
what is the maximum stack?
Are you climb cutting? As you don't have a backer board.
Do you use the cut-off saw to cut to length or use precut?
Is the height setting computer controlled?
How accurate / repeatable is it?

hi Mark,
15HP on the tenon shaft, 50mm shaft X 320mm. In the picture the stack is all the cutters for traditional double hung and casement with sash thickness of 1 3/4” or 2 1/4”. Four heads in that picture- slot and tenon for sash and slot and tenon for the casement frame.
Yes, it climb cuts but not in the traditional sense, only so the pneumatic floating chipbreaker can be used. With the CNC program the spindle can drop and another cut can be made on the backstroke. For example making the doors in the video the coped stack rail was made by cutting off the tenons on the backstroke.

cut off saw is controlled by CNC to determine tenon length and works together with the automatic cross fence to cut parts to length up to 10’ long.

height of stack controlled by CNC

To change to a different system, for example the 68 mm tilt turn window and door system in the video you just change the stack and chipbreaker and select that tool system in the program. Takes less than 5 minutes.

Its very accurate and repeatable but like all things CNC electronics can go wrong...

For sure faster and and more accurate than a shaper or a but also quite a investment in machine and tooling.

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