New to CNC Machines

[Michael Thames]

Well, I ordered the machine today, and so it begins. I think having looked at the software that comes with it, I'm fairly confident I can learn the basics, and then move on form there .... actually the software looks like something I can sink my teeth into rather than the abstract audio and video stuff I'm used to.

I think as applied to guitar unless you happen to be Taylor guitars where hands never touch it, there are realitivly few applications.

I'm making what is called Double Top guitars, where you rout out a guitar top, insert a balsa wood core material and seal it up with a .50 mm veneer. My hope is to be able to rout out the cavities in the top to receive the balsa core. The balsa core also must be CNCed. I'm not sure if I can post a link to the process here or not.

Also, I want to cut the head design on a CNC, as well as the bridges. None of this seems too complicated on a 3axis machine.

[Ted Reischl]

Hello Jim. I know what you are saying but there is that little issue of spending a bunch of time learning something, then being reluctant to let it go, suffering along and then having the classic issue: "Well, such and such software did it this way, why doesn't this program do it the same way?"

[William Adams]

I will note that Carbide Create is almost embarrassingly simple (but surprisingly capable potentially with a bit of thought).

When paired with a formal Bézier curve drawing program such as Inkscape or Adobe Illustrator or CorelDraw or Serif's Affinity Designer it can do pretty much anything which doesn't require controlled 3D movement of the machine --- for that you'll want a 3D CAD/CAM program as noted previously.

[David Falkner]

Well, I ordered the machine today, and so it begins. I think having looked at the software that comes with it, I'm fairly confident I can learn the basics, and then move on form there .... actually the software looks like something I can sink my teeth into rather than the abstract audio and video stuff I'm used to.

I think as applied to guitar unless you happen to be Taylor guitars where hands never touch it, there are realitivly few applications.

I'm making what is called Double Top guitars, where you rout out a guitar top, insert a balsa wood core material and seal it up with a .50 mm veneer. My hope is to be able to rout out the cavities in the top to receive the balsa core. The balsa core also must be CNCed. I'm not sure if I can post a link to the process here or not.

Also, I want to cut the head design on a CNC, as well as the bridges. None of this seems too complicated on a 3axis machine.

Looking forward to seeing how you get started on the CNC, Michael. I built our CNC machine primarily for aiding in building guitars, more for templates, fixtures, and jigs but also wanting to do bridges and in the future give rough carving of necks a shot. But things change and I'm using the CNC for everything I can right now. I have had a few opportunities to use it for guitar work, though. I have cut the headstock shape on the CNC and have done some inlay work, as well. Here's a video of my first attempt at cutting a Walnut test bridge, albeit a bit larger than the final one I cut out of EIR. This process can definitely be improved but it worked for this bridge.



David

[Michael Thames]

Dave, great video! very inspiring. Also I really like your design. I make only classical guitars and they are just rectangular shape, this seems like it would be easier to do. I want to also do the head and classical have a slotted design. At this point I dont want to carve the neck, just the head. The software Carbide design looks like that is all I need for now. Once I get familiar with it and learn the basic terminology, i'll move on to bigger and better things. These CNC machine look very addictive, looks like I've found a new obsession.

[Michael Thames]

Thanks Richard, I have been looking over the tutorials on the Carbide Create and it seems quite simple. At first, I thought the learning curve for CNC was out of my pay grade, and I'm sure as you dig further into it, it is. I dont want to start a new career, just enough that I can save time and make things even more accurate and efficient for my guitar making. I've made about 975 guitars, I only wish I considered CNC's a few years before now.... ha!

[Michael Thames]

Thanks! Yea it looks much simpler than I had imagined. I have no use at this point for 3D.

[Michael Thames]

Here is one thing I want to do with the CNC. Rout out the cavity in the top, the remaining thickness of the top after routing out the cavity is .70 mm. I mostly likely will have to made a vacuum clamp to hold down the top while CNC-ing, because the thin .70 has a tendency to not behave or lay flat on the table, it's like clamping down a piece of paper, so I think a vacuum clamp is essential. Also, Im wondering if I might just use a plunge router for this operation and do it the old fashioned way.

I need to CNC the balsa cores too. Go to 3:30 in the video to see what I'm talking about. Otherwise a very long and boring video.

[Jim Becker]

Michael, I think you'll find having a CNC to be a valuable addition to your operation, particularly for at least initial creation of certain components in a consistent fashion so that you can then "do what you do" to complete the instrument. That repeatability can take away the busy work for those components and let you focus on the finesse.

Although my general intentions for my own machine are for a whole bunch of non-musical things, I do plan on trying my hand at a few electric guitars just because it's of personal interest to me, despite being a life-long keyboard guy who also can pick out notes on bass and guitar. I could be fun. We do have a Musical Instruments forum here at SMC so I hope you'll share your journey with CNC and your guitar production there as time passes.

[David Falkner]

Dave, great video! very inspiring. Also I really like your design. I make only classical guitars and they are just rectangular shape, this seems like it would be easier to do. I want to also do the head and classical have a slotted design. At this point I dont want to carve the neck, just the head. The software Carbide design looks like that is all I need for now. Once I get familiar with it and learn the basic terminology, i'll move on to bigger and better things. These CNC machine look very addictive, looks like I've found a new obsession.

Thanks, Michael! It was a fun little project to cut and I learned a lot about Fusion 360 in doing something out of the norm. But the biggest advantage I see in using the CNC for cutting bridges is cutting the saddle slot, not only for the slot width but also the 8° slant. I bought bone blanks that are sold as 1/8" and, like a lot of things you buy, these have an acceptable tolerance. The blank I'm using is 0.132", not 0.125". Now this is either so that you can thin it down to fit your slot as tightly as you want or simply within an acceptable tolerance for what it is.

For me, though, I like it being slightly thicker, even if it's only 0.007". So what that means is I can cut the slots at 0.135" and get a very tight fit on the saddle. I don't want a press fit and I don't want it to be able to lean or have any play in the slot. Using a 1/16" bit allows me to cut it precisely at 0.135" and I can tell you that the saddle blank fits the slot perfectly. That would have been difficult to do by hand (edge guide or template with handheld router). I would have had to cut the slot slightly narrow and then thin the saddle blank to fit, which Luthiers do all the time. I'm no Luthier but I have done that a dozen times replacing plastic saddles with bone saddles for friends on their guitars.

The rest of it, bridge pin holes, string ramps, outer profile, could have been done by hand very easily but since I have the CNC I figure 'why not'...

David

PS - I like your double top with Balsa inserts (watched the entire video). I wonder how that would work on a steel string?

[Chris Albertson]

I think a better way to go is to learn to make drawings yourself FIRST then buy the machine. Buying the machine first is nt so good because then you have a machine you can't use.

I don't know what kind of CAD software you want to use but none of it is all that hard to learn. If you have to select between two, choose the one with the larger users base so you can ask questions and also pick the one with the best training materials. I use Autodesk Fusion but I build parts for CNC milling machines and 3D printing too. Expect it to take a few weeks

Yes you might find someone to help you model a part but you can't depend of that for all your work unless you hire a designer. People might suggest the best software if you were to say what you want to make. Is it free form word carvings or more like geometric parts like a kitchen cabinet makers would make?

Get the software FIRST. The machine of of no use at all until you can use the software.

[Chris Albertson]

The suggestion to use Fusion 360 is a good one. First off the price is right, free until you use it to make $50,000 per year then you need to buy a license. One of the best things is that there is a HUGE amount of god quality on-line train at the Autodesk web site and the very active support comunity

Two weeks ago I found what I thought was a bug in their software. I posted a question and a screen shot Saturday evening I got an email Sunday afternoon from someone at Autodesk asking about how he could reproduce it and wanted acessso to my file that caused the problem. For free software the support is outstanding. I get questions answered in near real-time. Autodesk is a one billion dollar company and they are dumping a ton of money into Fusion 360.

It is not hard to learn, it is actually easiethen most of the professional level 3D CAD systems

What Fusion 360 is best at, where it beats a lot if other CAD is in making shapes that are "organic", then is with compound freeform curve. Lets say you wanted to make a front hood for a BWM 318i. Fusion is well suited to making automotive body shapes or say the handle for a chief knife for frames for eyeglasses. If yu are making musical instruments then I'd guess you have very few straight and geometric parts. But make those first.

One more thing: 3D printershave fallen below the $200 price point, for good ones. If you make a model in Fusion the same model can drive a printers or a router or a milling machine. It is good to be able to print a part and check it for fits and size the plastic is cheap (2 cents per gram)

So do all the online videos at the fusion site and make some parts, THEN buy the machine that can make the parts. Or if you want to ease into it buy a $180 printer and use that to make parts then buy the $$$ machine.

[Michael Thames]

I think a better way to go is to learn to make drawings yourself FIRST then buy the machine. Buying the machine first is nt so good because then you have a machine you can't use.

I don't know what kind of CAD software you want to use but none of it is all that hard to learn. If you have to select between two, choose the one with the larger users base so you can ask questions and also pick the one with the best training materials. I use Autodesk Fusion but I build parts for CNC milling machines and 3D printing too. Expect it to take a few weeks

Yes you might find someone to help you model a part but you can't depend of that for all your work unless you hire a designer. People might suggest the best software if you were to say what you want to make. Is it free form word carvings or more like geometric parts like a kitchen cabinet makers would make?

Get the software FIRST. The machine of of no use at all until you can use the software.

Ahaw! Too late bought the machine already! But I am looking at the tutorials everyday.

[Michael Thames]

Fusion 360 is not just for those wanting to do 3D machining. It handles simpler work very easily. In my humble opinion, the key to being successful with a CNC machine is mastery of the software. If I were starting from scratch these days I would start with F360 and make the investment in time to learn it. I can recommend videos by Lars Christensen on YouTube. He has well over 100 videos up. He works for AutoDesk and holds a weekly streaming video for absolute beginners. All for free.

That said, if my focus was going to be artistic types of things I would save up my nickels and dimes for Aspire. I also use Aspire. Keep in mind there is no "best" software. Each has its strengths and weaknesses. I would not attempt to design a leaf in 3D using F360, but in Aspire, darn easy. But F360 has some design and machining capabilities that Aspire cannot match. One of those is "adaptive" machining. It is not a gimmick, adaptive machining has become pretty much du jour in modern cnc shops.

I look it over, the best part is it's free.

[David Falkner]

The suggestion to use Fusion 360 is a good one. First off the price is right, free until you use it to make $50,000 per year then you need to buy a license.

It's actually $100,000 but I'm so far under either number that it's a moot point for our little slice of the woodworking world.

David