Make Wood Windows for old house - good idea?

[Andrew Seemann]

I've done some storm windows and a picture window where I couldn't find anything new that fit for reasonable price. All were from eastern/northern white pine, The originals were white pine sapwood and they had lasted 100 years with poor maintenance, so I figured that new white pine would work just fine. As had been said, making windows isn't hard, but then it isn't exactly easy either. I seem to remember a lot of annoying math that was really easy to mess up.

Also, don't overlook how much work glazing is, especially since you probably need to use compound to match the look. If that can be subbed out, I would definitely recommend it. Glazing window after window of divided lights might just drive you bonkers.

[Darcy Warner]

Apparently not many here have actually worked on projects that are for historical buildings or houses.

There is usually some leeway, but not much.

I would rather have single glazed with a storm window than try to make insulated glass sashes.

[Paul Girouard]

Here’s some sash I’ve repaired, there’s a lot to just the sash without going into the window jamb itself. Part beads , sash weights , rollers for the sash weights , trap doors to remove the sash weights and or replace the sash cords.

There’s got to be 20 to 50 specific parts to a wood window jamb and the accompanying sash.
There are books written about window making , the old fashion way.



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I have more but they won’t help you much and the forums so slow at loading pictures it’s no worth it for me to post photo’s you really don’t need to see.

IF the windows you posted are the worst ones you have, and you have patients , and the time to deal with carefully disassembly , remaking specific parts it is possible you could pull it off.

[Mel Fulks]

And the thick glass unit makes for a thick sash that makes a huge off set that ruins the traditional double hung look on
both sides.

[Cosmos Krejci]

Simple answer to a simple question , NO.

Funny I've seen lots of guys show pictures of mortises they made on them. I don't see any features that can't be done.

[Cosmos Krejci]

I've done some storm windows and a picture window where I couldn't find anything new that fit for reasonable price. All were from eastern/northern white pine, The originals were white pine sapwood and they had lasted 100 years with poor maintenance, so I figured that new white pine would work just fine. As had been said, making windows isn't hard, but then it isn't exactly easy either. I seem to remember a lot of annoying math that was really easy to mess up.

Also, don't overlook how much work glazing is, especially since you probably need to use compound to match the look. If that can be subbed out, I would definitely recommend it. Glazing window after window of divided lights might just drive you bonkers.

I would CAD/CAM it up. I don't do much hand calcs these days unless I'm slapping together something temporary.

I thought you get get divided light with inserts between the panes.

The glazing gets painted. Not sure why I'd need something special there

Thanks

[Paul Girouard]

Funny I've seen lots of guys show pictures of mortises they made on them. I don't see any features that can't be done.

I don’t have one, cabinet shops we use have big CNC’s that don’t make any thing like wood window parts.

So maybe you have info I don’t have. A window making shop I’m sure has specialized tooling that would be CNC driven , but the machines our cabinet guys have which cost a 200K , would be worthless building a wood window part.

[Darcy Warner]

Sure, go ahead and make sashes with your TS and CNc.

Please just let us know how that worked out for you.
Especially if you are required to follow any guidelines due to a registry or what not.

Side note: wood roofing shingles last 50+ years if installed correctly on the correct substrate (skip sheeting).

[Paul Girouard]

I would CAD/CAM it up. I don't do much hand calcs these days unless I'm slapping together something temporary.

I thought you get get divided light with inserts between the panes.

The glazing gets painted. Not sure why I'd need something special there

Thanks

Divided lights with grids between the panes will not make you historic people happy.


The grids are flat, and they are sandwiched between panes by the glass company , who is a subcontractor to the windows companies.

Our Andersen sales rep claimed Andersen is one of the FEW window makers who has their own glass division . They stamp all their glass with their name. Most, if not all,if that sales rep knew what he was talking about , window companies outsource’s their glass to glass makers.

Historic districts like “true divided lites” , and making the parts, the muntins become large or over sized to work with the thermal glass thickness.



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[Paul Girouard]

Sure, go ahead and make sashes with your TS and CNc.

Please just let us know how that worked out for you.
Especially if you are required to follow any guidelines due to a registry or what not.

Side note: wood roofing shingles last 50+ years if installed correctly on the correct substrate (skip sheeting).

You’d be lucky to get twenty years here in the PNW, I’ve watched roofs come and go.

And shingles are not shakes, although both should be installed over skip sheathing. BUT today in the PNW you can’t build a house using skip sheathing , you’d have to sheath the roof trusses or rafters , then build another roof above it , and come up with some way to vent it to make the Cedar shingles or shake think they where on a roof where the attic was well ventilated which allows the Cedar to dry out from below.

The hoop jumps are super high, the matrix crap they sell doesn’t create the same conditions a pre 1990’s house attic could provide with skip sheathing.

[Paul Girouard]

https://static1.squarespace.com/stat..._tip_sheet.pdf

[John TenEyck]

Good question. If the frames can be corrected to be square maybe that would reduce some work.

Here are a couple photos to give you an idea of the work.

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Sophie says open the window. I've managed to get a couple functioning, but they don't slide well at all.

Sophie says you can repair those windows. They don't look all that bad from your photos. It's a lot of work, but doable. Strip, sand, replace what wood needs to be. It's more effort than skill. New rope, seals, and stops, if needed, when you put them back in. If the sash joints are loose you will have to disassemble and reglue them. It takes a little finesse to find and remove the pins but paint grade allows for lots of sins along the way. You will learn a lot along the way, including exactly how they are made and be in a much better position to judge whether or not you are capable of making any that can't be saved or in communicating with someone else to make them should you choose to go that route.

John

[Paul Girouard]

That last post of mine, that seems to be a good info PDF , if it’s a good link. About windows in NE .
And by region of the country you’ll find different woods used , in the 1800 early 1900 shipping Eastern White Pine to Seattle , or VG Fir to Boston wasn’t the normal way things where done.

Down south Cypress , or SY Pine most likely where the choice of woods to use , as it was readily available.

I love Pine , but the stuff I get in the PNW isn’t Eastern White Pine, buy VG Fir , well it literally grows on trees around here.

So wood species used is going to greatly dependent on region.

[Paul Girouard]

Sophie says you can repair those windows. They don't look all that bad from your photos. It's a lot of work, but doable. Strip, sand, replace what wood needs to be. It's more effort than skill. New rope, seals, and stops, if needed, when you put them back in. If the sash joints are loose you will have to disassemble and reglue them. It takes a little finesse to find and remove the pins but paint grade allows for lots of sins along the way. You will learn a lot along the way, including exactly how they are made and be in a much better position to judge whether or not you are capable of making any that can't be saved or in communicating with someone else to make them should you choose to go that route.

John

Who is “Sophie”, is that a saying like “ Bob’s your uncle!” , or is Sophie a living breathing person?

[Chris Draper]

Disclaimer: I am currently employed by The Marvin Companies, Inc. as an IT manager.

If you haven't found a manufacturer of all wood windows than you haven't looked hard enough. Marvin does it. Anderson does it. Pella probably does it.

My wife is employed by the same company but she works as an Architectural Project Coordinator. She quotes jobs for historical projects all the time. It is very often the case that historical districts have a large amount of control on not just the aesthetics but the construction of windows and doors. Some things to consider.

The sash construction (if allowed) can either be ADL, actual divided light or SDL, simulated divided light. An ADL would be a sash constructed with several individual pieces of glass each divided by wood or some other material. This can be done with single pane glass or insulated glass. SDL is accomplished by creating a a sash with no dividers. Then the dividers (grills) are stuck on the inside and outside to create the same look of a divided sash. SDL would be less expensive if the historical district would allow it. You would not be able to tell the difference looking from the street. This can be done in an all wood window. Pine would be the least expensive option. Fir would be more. Oak, Cherry, and Mahogany are really going to be a bunch more money but Marvin will do it. If the frames are good and you want to just do replacement sash Marvin can do that.

If you buy from a manufacturer you are going to get a good warranty, probably 20 years. That is something to consider.

If you want to talk to a professional I would be happy to give you my wife's contact information.

I am an accomplished woodworker. I would buy manufactured windows.