to me this is somewhat rediculous

[Peter Quinn]

Seems to be a solid concept to me. Not the way i would do it, certainly not at work. The length of your bar clamps would be a limiting factor, and applying a bit too much clamp pressure could bow the sheet and create more problems than it might solve. Not a technique without its problems, but not some horrible abomination either. Looks like a pretty nice shop he is working in there. I'd agree that good technique and a study hand are sufficient for cutting a sheet the size shown in the video.

So file my response to that subject under "Doesn't seem to do much harm, might do some good for some one."

[Chip Lindley]

I was thinking Pony #50 clamp! I personally have had problems with clamps on the edge of plywood used for other than gluing pressure. The clamps seem to want to worm around at the worst possible moment, causing a fear they may become undone right in the middle of a cut! Not to mention that the edge of the plywood may be damaged IF sufficient clamping pressure is applied to provide a "handle." I will trust my instincts and the downward pressure applied by my ten digits rather than an attachment not intended for this application. Iron and carbide do not mix. Since I don't own any expensive aluminum clamps I will file this tip away in the memory banks for another day.

Cutting a half sheet of plywood has never been a problem for me. Infeed and outfeed tables to support the sheet seem to offer more assurance of success than a "handle."

As for FWW charging to peek at their Tips, there is no free lunch. Tauton's plan may backfire as we enter this "not-a-recession." But, I wonder how many forked over their $4.95 just out of curiosity. P.T. Barnum was a shrewd dewd!

[Bill White]

'cause when I checked the link, they were trying to sell me something.
I passed.
Bill

[Rod Sheridan]

The tip regarding the use of a bar clamp as a handle for ripping larger pieces of sheet goods could be useful for some people.

(Lower upper body strength, arthritis etc), in that way it's a good clip.

However, the tablesaw didn't have a guard or splitter, and the operator didn't have hearing protection, and was wearing a long sleeved shirt with the sleeves not rolled up. In addition it appeared that safety glasses weren't worn, just prescription glasses with no side shields.

Generally when demonstrating safe machine operation, it's a good idea not to have 4 or 5 safety problems during the demo.

Regards, Rod.

[Glenn Clabo]

David,
Just wondering...
Why do you think they should give it away free? I doubt that many publocations can survive very long without charging for the infomation they publish.

[David Keller NC]

A comment about John's technique. While clever, and appropriate for those that insist on cutting large sheets of plywood on a table saw in a home shop, there are much, much better ways to accomplish the same thing a whole lot more safely. The bottom line is that it's dangerous for the home shop operator to cut 4X8 sheets of plywood (and especially mdf!) on a table saw. There's a lot of reasons for this, but the two biggest are the requirement to lift a great deal of weight in an awkward position, and the danger of kickback from an unsupported flexing of the sheet. Trust me on this one - the potential for back injury from horsing around a big sheet of plywood or mdf is a very serious one, and you'll usually get little to no warning before your back says "I give up!" and you collapse into a heap on the floor, and spend the next several months in and out of back injury clinics. For many of us, a back injury is permanent - it will not heal the way another muscle injury will.

The much safer way to do this and still get a good, straight edge is with with a guide and a circular saw equipped with a plywood cutting blade. And if you've one of the newer plunge saws, you can even do this with melamine and get a chip-free edge. Moreover, you can make the guide yourself out of scraps if you choose, and the commercial ones have gotten very cheap.

Bottom line - If you're a home shop operator without an 6' long infeed, outfeed, and side table for your saw, and If you've a full sheet of plywood or mdf to cut, DON'T DO IT ON A TABLE SAW!

[John Thompson]

A comment about John's technique. While clever, and appropriate for those that insist on cutting large sheets of plywood on a table saw in a home shop, there are much, much better ways to accomplish the same thing a whole lot more safely. The bottom line is that it's dangerous for the home shop operator to cut 4X8 sheets of plywood (and especially mdf!) on a table saw... David

Too clear something up David... John White is not advocating cutting 4 x 8 sheets of plywood.. MDF.. etc. on the TS. He is only offering a method that "he" uses to cut sheets after broken down as most of us without a panel saw or power feeder do.

I have been cutting the main sheet down with a circular for a long time and then take the smaller pieces to the TS for exact sizing. I have had 5 kick-backs over the years with ply even with those smaller sheets and only one with solid stock ripping. I use front and rear friction table supports. I use not only a plastic shield but a crown gaurd.

There seems to be lots of assumption based on the original post that the video had to be deleted by many that have not seen the video. It would be wise to view it before commenting on just what he is referring to and how he does it.

There has been no mention that John White is ripping the edge off of an approximate sheet about 24 x 48. Nor how he clamps the aluminum bar on the sheet using blocks with dadoes and nails. Nor why he advocates using the aluminum bar clamp especially on melamine.. corian.. phonolic coat.. etc.

And the simple fact he is not advocating you must use this method rather it's just how "he" does it. Meaning... you can adopt it if you wish or run with your own method if you feel it more efficent. John White is a very know-ledgeable WW and WW machine man.. I would hate for the respect that he has earned over the years be tarnished by mere assumptions posted by those that have not even viewed the video.

Not picking on you.. only on asumptions in general.. I know we all know what "a**-u-me" means.

Watch the video and then form an opinion of what it really shows or says is all I am saying...

Regards...

Sarge..

[Wilbur Pan]

http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworki....aspx?id=31001

Wonder if this guy has ever worked in a production shop before. Must take him a long time to cut stuff.

Whatever you think about this tip's utility, the time it takes to do this seems like a minor issue. He video takes two minutes to explain the tip, which means that it's less time to do it without talking at a camera. Even at two minutes, that amount of time compared to the total time to produce a piece of furniture is negligible in terms of efficiency.

[David Keller NC]

Actually, I've watched the video several times (FWW re-cycles content to their home page repeatedly), and I still think it's dangerous. While easier on your back, my thought is that any piece of plywood that's too long and wide to be safely handled by hand shouldn't be cut on a table saw without what you'd find in a professional shop - big infeed, outfeed, and side tables surrounding the saw, and often a power feeder.

And while John is posting simply what he does, as you say, the fact that it's a featured technique on the FWW site often leads less experienced WWs to believe that the method shown is "peer-reviewed" (whether that's the case or not). I've had the personal experience of this on many occassions, and the typical opening line is "Cabinetmaker X in FWW suggests doing it this way..." That doesn't mean that someone shouldn't learn from magazines, net videos and the like, but I do think that WW mags should think hard about whether to publish a technique or not if the variations likely to be "encountered in the field" are going to lead to a hazardous situation. I've seen Norm do things on the New Yankee Workshop that makes my skin crawl, and while he's got all ten fingers, he's also a good deal better at what he does than his average viewer.

[Clifford Mescher]

I think the video was informative and the technique might help someone.I didn't think it was ridiculous at all. Clifford

[John Thompson]

Actually, I've watched the video several times (FWW re-cycles content to their home page repeatedly), and I still think it's dangerous. While easier on your back, my thought is that any piece of plywood that's too long and wide to be safely handled by hand shouldn't be cut on a table saw without what you'd find in a professional shop - big infeed, outfeed, and side tables surrounding the saw, and often a power feeder.

And while John is posting simply what he does, as you say, the fact that it's a featured technique on the FWW site often leads less experienced WWs to believe that the method shown is "peer-reviewed" (whether that's the case or not). I've had the personal experience of this on many occassions, and the typical opening line is "Cabinetmaker X in FWW suggests doing it this way..." That doesn't mean that someone shouldn't learn from magazines, net videos and the like, but I do think that WW mags should think hard about whether to publish a technique or not if the variations likely to be "encountered in the field" are going to lead to a hazardous situation. I've seen Norm do things on the New Yankee Workshop that makes my skin crawl, and while he's got all ten fingers, he's also a good deal better at what he does than his average viewer.

I see your point David but... I personally don't think it's dangerous if set up as he describes. I really prefer not to put sheets on the TS unless already cut down to under 36" x 48" as I have sufficient friction support in place. The only thing that can get squirrelly IMO at that point is un-intentionally allowing the sheet to come off that fence and that's where trouble got started for me on the previous 5 kick-backs with ply.

I used the method about a week ago to cut down some 3/4" MDF for a taper jig base and again this morning for a broken down sheet of MDF to re-stock my wood rack with it for templates.. etc. I really like the method and will continue to use it unless something happens that changes my mind.

I will agree with you on what they put on the inter-net often being goobled up as the Holy Grail with un-experienced WW's. I had a running gun battle with the Editor of FWW not long ago about a video he posted on riving knives where they stated with a riving knife on a TS you elminated kick-back.

That is not true at all and it took a week of convincing the editor that a riving knife is only 1 safety feature of several and even with all of them you are not totally free from kick-back. So a word of caution to new WW.. just because you read it or see it... dpesn't always make it so. If you have doubt... ask questions as the WW mag guys put their pants on as anyone else and make mistakes.

There is nobody that knows all about WW and that includes so-called experts that aren't always experts if you look deeper than the shiny cover.

Regards...

Sarge..

[Rob Blaustein]

I think the video was informative and the technique might help someone.I didn't think it was ridiculous at all. Clifford

Agreed.
Also, the fee for online access to FWW (or FHB) IF you subscribe already, is quite reasonable given the search capability and the number of articles (spanning many years) you can view. I find it very useful and a great value.

[Lee Hingle]

Bottom line - If you're a home shop operator without an 6' long infeed, outfeed, and side table for your saw, and If you've a full sheet of plywood or mdf to cut, DON'T DO IT ON A TABLE SAW!

David,
I guess I should have talked to you before I did all of this - without a 6' long infeed, outfeed and side table. It took roughly 3-4 hours to do this with a powermatic 66. No slider. And absolutely, positively, no circular saw with a guide.








While I see you are passionate about your circular saw, that technique is not for everybody.

Lee Hingle

[Mike Heidrick]

OT - I love those aluminum clamps - universal clamp co or whatever brand they are. I want to add about 30 of the 30" ones to my shop. They are awesome.

[DEBRA BOEHMER]

I have ripped plywood with a table saw numerous times. And it is faster. I have also ripped plywood with a circular saw. The key is working safe. I always wear safety goggles, there is always a guard on the table saw, and I always have a helper with me when ripping.

I use a push stick too. You have to feed the saw by pushing the material through. If it gets in a bind then it sometimes is becuase the wood can't fall away from the table saw and it go's against the blade. Either way to each their own way. Some just learn the hard way when others do not.

~Debra