Festool saw guide?

[Dino Makropoulos]

[QUOTE=Jamie Buxton]Dino ---

As the guy who started this thread, and a guy who has no brand-loyalty axes to grind, I have to say I'm disappointed in your postings. Before you posted, we were having a good discussion of the pros and cons of these various similar systems. Yes, there were some brand loyalties, but the focus was on the facts and the technical merits. The discussion was based on real user experience, which is the best kind.

You, obviously, are quite proud of your device. You also have a great deal of information which would be valuable to this discussion. However, confrontation and challenges do not sell products to customers like me. What does sell to me is clear explanation of the merits of the product. I'd appreciate it if you'd back off on the confrontation, and step up on the clear explanation.

Hi Jamie.
I think I answer to all of your technical questions. Without Any Challenge or Confortation to YOU. One By One.
The clear explanation is That the EZSmart is the only guide system that can give you all the benefits of all other systems combine plus some more unique features that they will allow anyone to work safe and smart with better quality without going broke. That's the clear explanation
Regards
Dino

[Dino Makropoulos]

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And how many of us tempt fate by not having an extra blade around? Festool's blades run from $21 to $49 for the ATF55 and nobody has ever written they are anything but top quality. If we get caught short, then we deserve what we get.

Festool can guarantee splinter-free bevel cuts because they designed the axis of rotation for the bevel to fall right on the edge defined by the cut-line. As good as the Eurekazone is, and I am disputing its quality, it cannot guarantee that performance unless it accommodates the rotational design of every model of saw mounted on it. I may be wrong but I don't know if that is possible
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.What are you saying? 1.( If we get caught short, then we deserve what we get.) 2.As good as the Eurekazone is, and I am disputing its quality,

1.You remind me of another woodworker from Austria who told me... With my 48 teeth blade I have no need for your $3.50 Antichip insert.
2. Disputing the quality? No problem. But why you complain about the challenge? If you have the right to dispute,dont I have the right to challenge you?
This is the problem here.Instead opening your eyes you're trying to keep all others blind.
Regards
Dino

[Greg Mann]

My quote was:

[As good as the Eurekazone is, and I am disputing its quality, it cannot guarantee that performance unless it accommodates the rotational design of every model of saw mounted on it. ]

My mistake, Dino. I meant to say 'and I am NOT disputing its quality'. That omission changed the flavor of everything that followed and that was NOT my intent. Sorry for the confusion.

My reference to deserving what we get is analogous to traveling without a spare tire, not smart.

Greg

[Dino Makropoulos]

My quote was:

[As good as the Eurekazone is, and I am disputing its quality, it cannot guarantee that performance unless it accommodates the rotational design of every model of saw mounted on it. ]

My mistake, Dino. I meant to say 'and I am NOT disputing its quality'. That omission changed the flavor of everything that followed and that was NOT my intent. Sorry for the confusion.

My reference to deserving what we get is analogous to traveling without a spare tire, not smart.

Greg

Greg, Enjoy your vacation my friend.And let me tell you something to make your vacation even better. My son goes to the vocational school (to become a carpenter) with a F-----l t-short.And I give it to him.
The (potshots) is not against any CO. Its against some who think that all others 're stupid.
Enjoy and drive safe.
YCF Dino

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Tyler....Chris......it may be time for you two to start sharing some of you "MEDS".............

[John Miliunas]

Jamie, allow me to give you my perspective on this situation, primarily as it relates to the Smart Guide System. Mind you, you're getting this from a real die-hard Festoolie! First, I would love to say that I've been able to do an A/B comparison of the systems, but alas, funds would not allow for both and I already had a "collection" of respectable circular saws. That said, I'm the proud owner of the SG1 system. I have recently had the unenviable task of literally rebuilding one of our home's outside walls, including the outside sheathing and T1-11. With as much rot as we found in the studs and there being a LOT of window/patio door area, I also opted to sheath the inside off the wall with CDX prior to putting on the drywall, as well, primarily to give the wall a bit more rigidity. Every last piece of sheet-goods was done with my Dewalt circular saw and the SG system. It's an older home and has gone through a fair amount of settling, hence not all the cuts necessary were at 90*. The SG came through with flying colors! Fast, predictable, clean and SAFE cuts! I don't believe I could've done all the weird cuts on my TS. This included plunge cuts, which maybe not as elegantly done as with the Festool, still quite easy and accurate. To finish inside cuts for around the window and patio doors, I stopped short of the corner and used my Festool jigsaw to finish the cuts. Everything was on the money! The T1-11 needed a few butt joints to get around utility boxes and such and, the splinter-free cuts made those seems virtually invisible. The project also required me to do some filler pieces of lumber stock for around the patio doors and window (remember, I said this is an *old* place!) and the clamping system of the SG1 made this pretty easy. Even our carpenter friend, who we hired to help with the project, was impressed and that's not always an easy thing to do!

Bottom line for me: The SG1 did everything it's purported to do and did so in a resoundingly high fashion! I believe it's allowed me to do work which I may not have otherwise been able to do, or at least, not as easily and safely. I'm not about to get into the "this vs. that" brand. You'd have to pry my various Festool products out of my cold, dead fingers before I gave them up, but the SG1 ranks right up there, as well! Yes, our friend Dino does, at times, get a bit overzealous regarding his product, but don't let that detract you from getting into a quality product! Whatever you choose, it should serve YOUR needs and YOUR budget! If I had the $$, would I get into a nice slider TS? You bet! Would I then put my SG1 away or for sale on eBay? Not a chance! Sorry I got a bit long-winded there, but just wanted to relay some of my personal experience with a specific tool albeit, with some random editorializing....

[Dennis Peacock]

No, I'm not THE moderator of THIS forum, but I am an SMC moderator.

I have deleted threads that have started getting out of hand like this.

PLEASE....let's just chill out and let this be a place of enjoyment.? Please?

[Cecil Arnold]

Way to go Dennis, it was time for someone to toss some icewater on this.

[Dave Hammelef]

Wow, I have been only doing brief visits to the woodworking forums of late. Been real busy at work and home, and free time has gone to the corvair. But it looks like i have missed some good debates. My 2 cents on this one.

To start off I do own the Festool system Saw, rails, vac, sander and router. Though the router has not even been out of the container, Love the Saw and sander.

I have looked at Dino's table to complete the system- More portable and less expensive (not as many features though) from the MFT -festool offers. Looking for something to replace my 2 sawhorses.

When I bought my saw and guide I didn't know about Dino's system not sure if it was even available. But this cost thing Dino mentions has me scratchen my head a bit. I believe a festool, saw and guide is about $375.
The Ez smart guide is $180 plus a good circ saw is going to cost about $130 ish (amazon porter cable). So that system is $310. And Im not going to get into the debate about the saws. or the containers, But the cost difference is about $65, not chump change but not major dollars either (and Festool often has sales). OOPS was just fact checking the Ez smart is normally $200 on sale for $180. There goes another $20 (diffence now about $50), sorry dont know what shipping cost would do to those numbers.

I have not seen the Ez guide in action and before you offer Dino. Yes send my a set up (I have an old Dewalt circ saw around here somewhere or I could mount it to my festool saw now that would make a great picture) I would love to compare them I have plywood and malemine laying around, plus a digital camera. Of course I have no time, so It may not happen to fast. Gee Bob if you want this to be a fair comparison maybe I need you to send me a whole new set-up while Im at it . Oh if any manufactures of sliding table saws or Heck I'll even compare bandsaws to these if anyone wants to send me one. I need a jig saw to. Lets make it easy just send me your tools.

One other feature of the festool saw that has not been mentioned is the built in spliter.

Dino, I will say your post dont come off as friendly and informative, more agressive and competative.

Another difference I have seen is size of company, Dino's appears to be a one man shop, Festool is a large company. You decide which you prefer.

Without seeing the Ez system in operation My uneducated comparisons trying to state facts let you decide whats good or bad. :
1) EZ takes away some depth of cut. But not sure how Depth of cut on Festool compares to circ saw you buy for Ez system.
2) Festool saw comes with nice container, Ez will depend on what you buy.
3) Festool has plunge saw - Not sure what the cost would be for that on a circ saw
4) Festool has spliter on saw - again not sure what the cost is for that on a circ saw.
5) EZ saw may be available locally depending on where you live, all festool comes from warehouse.
6) Dino, Bob
7) Festool works with thier router and jig saw, but you gotta buy thier stuff. Looks like EZ has added a router option now.
8) Ez gives anti chip guide when every you use the saw, Festools anti chip guide only works with the rail (its attached to the rail not the saw).
9) Ez guide needs some assembly - attaching smart base to saw.
10) Ez appears to be about $50 cheaper (YMMV depending on saw)

Ok, I need to get to bed. Gotta get up in 4hrs. I hope these ramblings make some sense. Dino you coming to Michigan anytime soon to demo it, would love to see you demonstrate your product and meet you.

[Dino Makropoulos]

http://eurekazone.com/images/product...nentslarge.jpg

wow Dave.
Very close, but you left out 14 other componets.
EZSmart. 50" guide $ 59.00
PC CS $130.00
Saw Blade Diablo $ 14 ,00
---------------------$203.00 vs $375.00
And if you allready have a circular saw is only $73.00 vs$375.00
Good Dreams.
YCF Dino

[Dino Makropoulos]

http://eurekazone.com/images/gallery...htlinerip.html

And you get A jointer for free (100").

http://eurekazone.com/products/smartconnector.html
Not 1, not 2, but 3 self aligning connectors.
Sweet dreams.
YCF Dino

[Dino Makropoulos]

[QUOTE=Dave Hammelef]Wow, I
I have looked at Dino's table to complete the system- More portable and less expensive (not as many features though) from the MFT -festool offers. Looking for something to replace my 2 sawhorses.
and competative.
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-That's a good start.
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Another difference I have seen is size of company, Dino's appears to be a one man shop, Festool is a large company. You decide which you prefer.
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-How funny that is. One day we support the (small Co) and the other we trash the the even smaller Co.
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Without seeing the Ez system in operation My uneducated comparisons trying to state facts let you decide whats good or bad.
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--With an uneducated comparition how can you state any facts?
Thats bad.
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Dino, I will say your post dont come off as friendly and informative, more agressive and competative

And yours come better?
But i'm glad that you like the Smart Table.
Regards
YCF Dino

[Christian Aufreiter]

PS: re: your questions...You can make beveled cuts without cutting the edge, you don't need a wrench for the clamps (only to use the connectors to join guide sections, and believe me they are strongggg), you can remove the saw if you need to (I haven't found it necessary myself). I miss anything?

Paul

Paul, can the EZ guide make cuts at any angle between 45° and 90° without cutting the edge or does this only work at 45° and 90°?

Regards,

Christian

[Christian Aufreiter]

I think I will . If you allow me to videotape.
Yes some people may have problems with the base if they don't read and follow the directions. And I know of many problems with your system that people complain about. So What?
And about the saw blade. If I can get chip free cuts with a $10.00 blade Imagine how good it will be with a $15.00 blade.
You know what? I don't even have to come to Austria. I have many Costumers in EU that they will be glad to. Let me know and I will arange the details.
So, What was your answer? Its not about the rails?
Regards
Dino

Dino, I don't know what your comment "So, What was your answer? Its not about the rails?" should mean.
Both systems, Festool and Eureka, have their advantages and disadvantages. It certainly depends on your personal needs which one you prefer. So I simply can't accept comments like "the Eureka system is far better and cheaper than anything else".
BTW, I'm not in favor of the idea that a stranger visits me at home and makes a video tape while we try the different guide rails and saws.
We have discussed this here and on other forums serveral times and at this point I'm really tired of further wrangling.

Regards,

Christian

[Bill Grumbine]

Dino, as the saying goes, the key to getting out of a hole is to first stop digging. People are offering opinions here on what they like and why. No one has denigrated your system, but you are coming on very strong in a negative way. That is not going to help your business, and it is going to do a lot of harm to the perception people have of you.

When we had our picnic a man who owns your system asked if he could bring it and demonstrate it. I told him that was fine, and to the best of my knowledge, he had a number of people watch and ask about it during the time he was here. But, you are destroying a lot of the good will that things like that produce. Who wants to buy from a person who is acrimonious at the drop of a hat, and without good reason? My first thought would be, what if I have a problem? How is this guy going to respond?

People are going to have their opinions and their preferences, and you are not going to change that by coming on strong and trying to browbeat them into agreeing with you. All you will do is drive potential customers away. Remember, there are a whole bunch more people reading this than participating in it. Most of them are probably like me. I have never seen your system, even though it was on display in my own yard. I was too busy to stop for most of the demos that day, so I can only go on what I know, and what I know right now does not motivate me to find out more, much less buy.

Bill