Toothing planes? practice?

[stephen thomas]

Bought the big Roubo book of plates as soon as it was offered.
Could not quite justify the marquetry book.
Though it has tempted me given recent posting FS by a Creeker.
I stayed strong, though.

smt

[Mark Leifer]

I took a class in veering and marquetry and have focused on hammer veneering with hide glue, since I don't have a vacuum table at home (and I'm a Neanderthal, after all!). Someone mentioned avoiding starved joints, and I think this is correct. You press the veneer down with considerable force while squeegeeing out the glue with this technique, so the toothing ensures that there is sufficient glue left to adhere the veneer. Hide glue is slippery as well, so the toothed surfaces help keep the veneer from sliding around as you squeegee. These are not concerns with vacuum bags and viscous modern glues like Cold Press.

Besides veneering, I've toothed my bench hooks and work surface so a bench hook won't slide even with sideways force. (The cross-hatching is barely visible in the photo.)
IMG_1936.jpg
I also toothed the back jaw of my Moxon vise so it holds work a little better.
IMG_1937.jpg
My toothing plane dates from the 1830's and is pretty cool to use.

[Maurice Mcmurry]

That is cool! Here is the toothed surface zoomed in (in case others are as slow as me in figuring out the zoom feature). I have used the corner of a file as a scraper to create tooth on plastics that are difficult to glue. That old plane is a dandy.

Screen Shot 2024-09-20 at 5.55.25 AM.jpg

[Doug Rasmussen]

I've done some hammer veneering, and toothing feels more about leveling rough surfaces than helping glue bond. Smoother surfaces seem to work better with hide glue in my experience. Only needed to tooth when dealing with really tricky wood.

[John C Cox]

I use a home made toothing iron for scrub and early stock prep, especially on hard and cranky wood. I found I could take a MUCH thicker chip with less tear out and a LOT less effort. I don't use it for glue joints, as the studies universally recommend against it.

That said, this sort of stock prep is a 2-plane proposition. The first is set up with the toothing iron to take a fairly deep cut. The second with a conventional iron and closely set chip breaker to plane off the little tracks created. So basically, I'll tooth then smooth, tooth then smooth, and so forth until I remove the saw marks and get the proper thickness.

Iron wise, I made my toothing iron by slotting a $3.00 Buck Brothers replacement iron with a dremel. I cut the slots like 1/16" apart and 1/16" to 1/32" deep, but it was NOT a precision implement, as it was destined for roughing. Eyeballed the whole thing.

Edge life wise, I also found that the useful edge of a pair of planes set up this way is a lot longer than trying to bull the same plane through ten-million gossamer shavings.

I would heartily recommend this to somebody getting into the hobby who doesn't have or want to spend a fortune on scrub planes. Just use whatever #4 or #5 size you have laying around and off you go.

[Jimmy Harris]

...
Then perhaps people who didn't understand the scientific technicalities of gluing came to understand it as providing "tooth"?
IOW, it worked better when done in many cases. So people ceased to think about why, and it became sort of understood standard practice whether necessary to any specific situation or not?
...

That's modern woodworking. We do things because that's the way they have always been done. We tend to view the old masters and their techniques with such reverence, that too many things are left unquestioned. Some of us will go as far as to vehemently attack those with alternative viewpoints as heretical, even in the face of indisputable evidence. And that's just part of human nature. Especially as we age, we tend to put more value in the answers than the questions. But the truth is, knowledge can only be sustained through the passing of answers. And knowledge can only advance with the asking of questions.

In other words, we are programmed to take the easy way out. And the easy way out isn't always the best path, but the one most traveled.

[stephen thomas]

Thank you for that information from the trenches, so to speak!
Very informative.

smt

[stephen thomas]

Great to hear that actual data point, Doug.
It mirrors my expectations, anyway.

smt

[stephen thomas]

Thank you John, for the first hand experience.
Are you saying you use the toothing iron for leveling in a 45 deg BD plane?
I might be inspired to try that......

smt

[stephen thomas]

Gonna make that one a sticky for the brain, Jimmy.

[Eric Brown]

Might try Patrick Edwards at Old Brown Glue for his thoughts.

https://oldbrownglue.com/index.php/articles

[stephen thomas]

Thanks Eric.
It might happen.
But i think OBG is a travesty.
Not at all a fan of liquid hide glue.
I take mine hot and steamy, thank you.

[Mark Rainey]

I also am puzzled by the use of a toothing plane. I hammer veneer with hot hide glue and commercial veneer often. I never use the toothing plane and doubt it would be of value.

serpentine.jpg

[stephen thomas]

I also am puzzled by the use of a toothing plane. I hammer veneer with hot hide glue

Thank you for another real world data point.
& prejudice support for me.

How thick is the commercial veneer you use?
Do you have a preferred gram strength glue?

Thank you.
smt