Straight vs. Angled Sides on a Mortise Chisel

[Daniel Culotta]

Same - about the same time with either method. Drilling + paring is less physical effort than chopping, but I end up with a rectangular hole after a few minutes either way.

[steven c newman]

Hmmm, have NEVER drilled out the waste in a Mortise...I simply lay the mortise out, and then proceed with the mallet and chisel....drilling first just adds another step to the process that I do NOT care for, nor use..

As for chisels getting stuck....lighten up...one does NOT need to whale away on the chisel as hard and deep as they can...is there a prize for how fast one can go with each chop?

I usually whack the chisel 2-3 times, and move on a bit, repeat until I reach the other end...then just keep repeating until I am am the required depth...and..have yet to get a chisel stuck in a mortise....hmmm, maybe I am doing something "wrong"

[Edward Weber]

Hmmm, have NEVER drilled out the waste in a Mortise...I simply lay the mortise out, and then proceed with the mallet and chisel....drilling first just adds another step to the process that I do NOT care for, nor use..

As for chisels getting stuck....lighten up...one does NOT need to whale away on the chisel as hard and deep as they can...is there a prize for how fast one can go with each chop?

I usually whack the chisel 2-3 times, and move on a bit, repeat until I reach the other end...then just keep repeating until I am am the required depth...and..have yet to get a chisel stuck in a mortise....hmmm, maybe I am doing something "wrong"

If you are doing something wrong, someone on the internet will let you know.

[stephen thomas]

You embarrass yourself with this statement, IMO.

I agree with Warren's post - we describe the same things.

AFA Frank Klausz, he is really, really good at freehand dovetails & promoting Frank Klausz.

A few decades ago i was expecting to be impressed at a seminar in his shop with CJWWA.
After he spent quite some time describing how one never puts the heart side of a board down, i timidly raised my hand and asked what that meant for bookmatched panels.
He got in my face and i got the spray-down-blow-dry spittle effect about how great he was and where all his bookmatched panels were installed & how did i dare to have questions.
He never did get the point.

All the work in progress in the shop was biscuit joint and Kreg jig -(literal) dry wall screws at the time.
When he demonstrated machines, the stroke sander specifically comes to mind, he appeared extremely apprehensive and inexperienced.

I'm not saying this to run someone down - we all have bad days and terrible presentations at times. Perhaps regretfully often when we are planning for the best. Hopefully we all get better with age. But unlike an awful lot of other woodworkers, well sung or not, FK did not impress me as being in the top tier, other than his business acumen. Which most of us could use more of.

[Jim Koepke]

I haven't found that drilling holes saves any time. I drill them for big timber framing mortises in dry wood, but otherwise don't. I start in the middle and work towards both ends in different directions.

Same - about the same time with either method. Drilling + paring is less physical effort than chopping, but I end up with a rectangular hole after a few minutes either way.

Same here, not any difference in time.

This may come down to the way a person works. My angled side chisels can be driven deeper without binding. Getting them to cut square has to do with how it is held at the beginning of a cut. My 5 mortise chisels are from 5 different makers. Same with the 3 other chisels that are often used for mortising. (though a 5/8" and a 3/4" may both be made by Winsted Edge Tool company though they have different branding)

Many here have likely cut mortises with a bevel edged bench chisel.

jtk

[Cameron Wood]

I agree with Warren's post - we describe the same things.

AFA Frank Klausz, he is really, really good at freehand dovetails & promoting Frank Klausz.

A few decades ago i was expecting to be impressed at a seminar in his shop with CJWWA.
After he spent quite some time describing how one never puts the heart side of a board up, i timidly raised my hand and asked what that meant for bookmatched panels.
He got in my face and i got the spray-down-blow-dry spittle effect about how great he was and where all his bookmatched panels were installed & how did i dare to have questions.
He never did get the point.

All the work in progress in the shop was biscuit joint and Kreg jig -(literal) dry wall screws at the time.
When he demonstrated machines, the stroke sander specifically comes to mind, he appeared extremely apprehensive and inexperienced.

I'm not saying this to run someone down - we all have bad days and terrible presentations at times. Perhaps regretfully often when we are planning for the best. Hopefully we all get better with age. But unlike an awful lot of other woodworkers, well sung or not, FK did not impress me as being in the top tier, other than his business acumen. Which most of us could use more of.

[/COLOR]

Interesting, and unfortunate. Warren Mickley's comment seemed to be based on reading a magazine article, where Klausz says there are lots of ways, and he prefers a 1˚ taper to the sides of his mortise chisels. This was a guy who could, I believe, dovetail a drawer box as fast as I can brush my teeth, so it's unlikely that he was not also proficient at cutting mortises.

[Charles Edward]

Klausz ran a cabinet shop in New Jersey for over thirty years from which he retired. Here's the shop he built/renovated after he retired from professional woodworking:

https://woodandshop.com/frank-klausz-workshop-tour/

Doesn't have the air of a man who can't chop a mortise, but if you have a need to believe that he can't I guess that's OK too. Sometimes the delusional are better left unconfronted. I tend to trust the words of a guy standing in a shop like that, than those from a guy that has a crappy Toyota leaking oil in the background.

He had a notorious 'debate' in FW with Ian Kirby about what shape a mortise chisel should be (also a debate about workbenches in another article). I'm pretty sure both of them can bang out a reasonably decent mortise.

I started drilling them with a brace, and paring, when my daughter was a baby. No noise. Haven't looked back. I have no idea which method is 'faster.' I drill 'em, pare 'em, and saw a tenon to fit the hole. If I pare a little rich, it's no big deal. I just adjust the gauge to fit and mark the tenon.

I do think that a chisel that's a parallelogram in section, if both sides aren't ground at the exact same angle, will twist in the hole. I think it's harder for a manufacturer to do that than grind them square in section. The whole 'deep mortise' argument is a nonstarter as I'd drill those, even if I didn't already drill 'regular' furniture-size mortises. You probably should too. If you look at a parallelogram shaped chisel, face-on, you can sometimes see by eye that the angles are not the same on both sides. That's a poorly made chisel and might be the reason your mortises are not coming out pretty close to 90* to the surface - a few degrees off plumb.

If you have one off of plumb, here's how to fix it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhtD14Qn5pM

Chopped intentionally 'off' to demonstrate the fix.

[Warren Mickley]

I laughed when I read Klausz's clumsy method for cutting mortises in 1979. Thirty years later he was using the technique that I was using in 1979. Even an "old world cabinetmaker" can learn hand tools here in America.

[steven c newman]

Rookies...

I started doing mortise and tenon joints in the fall of 1968....

And, something else to talk about ( since no photos have been shown by the "Gurus") Mortise first...or ...tenon first? Or, is that one of those "Pins vs Tails first" debates?

BTW: that 1st M&T Joint was part of an Exam...that we had to be graded on....along with 7 other types of wood joints. Using simple hand tools...as we were not allowed to touch those Rockwell/Delta power tools the shop had.....donated by the local Factory that made those power tools.

Thinking about re-creating that Exam as a thread here at SMC....separate from this entertaining thread...of course...

We now return to your regularly scheduled Bashing Thread.....While I sit back and laugh....

[Jimmy Harris]

Hmmm, have NEVER drilled out the waste in a Mortise...I simply lay the mortise out, and then proceed with the mallet and chisel....drilling first just adds another step to the process that I do NOT care for, nor use..

As for chisels getting stuck....lighten up...one does NOT need to whale away on the chisel as hard and deep as they can...is there a prize for how fast one can go with each chop?

I usually whack the chisel 2-3 times, and move on a bit, repeat until I reach the other end...then just keep repeating until I am am the required depth...and..have yet to get a chisel stuck in a mortise....hmmm, maybe I am doing something "wrong"

I'll drill them if they're big enough. If it's a regular sized mortise, it's usually more work to switch between the two, so I just stick with the chisel. But if you're removing a serious amount of material, a drill or brace can save a lot of time. Plus, it's a different motion so you don't get worn out as quickly.

[Charles Edward]

Fine Woodworking would love to interview you and see your work. You game?

[steven c newman]

Hmmm?

IF anyone wants to stop by, just let me know...

[Charles Edward]

I laughed when I read Klausz's clumsy method for cutting mortises in 1979. Thirty years later he was using the technique that I was using in 1979. Even an "old world cabinetmaker" can learn hand tools here in America.

Laughable or not, his career and life of working wood is fairly well-documented into and beyond retirement.

All we seem to have are your posts constantly mentioning seminal moments from the 1970s.

You must have a staggering body of work by now, some 40+ years hence and as a professional and not a weekend warrior like the rest of us. Beyond the commissioned work that pays the bills, every room in your house beautifully furnished with your own creations. Sure you don't want to share? I saw an article where Chris Becksvoort mentioned documenting in an order book some 900 or so commissioned pieces during his career (he's retiring). You must have at least that many if not more. How could the kind of expertise you claim make you anything other than one of the most prolific woodworkers of the 20th/21st century? The speed. The precision. Off-the-charts. Magazines clamoring and begging to do feature length articles. Important commissions for well heeled clients all over the United States and beyond. The works. Everything all the rest of us wish we were.

There seem to be a few cheerleaders around the discussion boards who say they've met you, but they conveniently never seem to have had a smartphone with them, or a camera of any kind. Is your work so utterly stunning that you won't allow it to be photographed? How does that conversation go? "Sure, come on by but you are not allowed to photograph my shop, my living room, or any work-in-progress."

Would you let somebody visit and produce a video of you chopping a mortise in real time, with a clock running? We want to see the virtuosity in action. Really. I am desperate to see how much better you are than everybody else. I want to see four mortises chopped, four tenons cut, and a frame go together dead flat and perfectly square in half the time it would take everybody else to do the same work.

[Charles Taylor]

You must have a staggering body of work by now, some 40+ years hence and as a professional and not a weekend warrior like the rest of us...etc...etc...

Asking a little clarification for my own sake: does everyone here on the Creek need to post up a CV like that in order to share an opinion? 'Cause I may have been here under false pretenses for a few years now. And I may owe one of those TV woodshop guys an apology for those times I cringed at things he did on camera--clearly outside my lane, lacking as I do the proper street cred.

Thanks in advance...

[Charles Edward]

Asking a little clarification for my own sake: does everyone here on the Creek need to post up a CV like that in order to share an opinion? 'Cause I may have been here under false pretenses for a few years now. And I may owe one of those TV woodshop guys an apology for those times I cringed at things he did on camera--clearly outside my lane, lacking as I do the proper street cred.

Thanks in advance...

Yeah, you do, when you're the woodworking equivalent of a guy with a $5,000 TD Ameritrade account calling Warren Buffett a hack.