California bans the SALE of gas lawn mowers and leaf blowers after 2024

[Doug Garson]

Actually it does. When you want to tell Tom what his lawn should look like and be from 3000 miles away and not even from this country it is exactly what it is. Going "natural" isn't the best fit for everyone even if it isn't being used for production of hay or being used as pasture. At this time he can still manage his property in a way that will be most beneficial to him. As can I mine.

Don't think the legislation is telling anyone what their lawn should look like, just that they can't buy a gas powered lawn mower. Don't think I have told anyone either, especially Tom, not sure which of my posts you think did that. I have, perhaps suggested that someone who can afford and has made the lifestyle decision to live on a property with several acres of lawn should be able to afford a small premium for lawn equipment that has a lesser impact on the environment. Yes I have a different perspective as I live in a city but I don't think I'm trying to impose it on anyone else. Yes I live in another country but we all share the same planet and the same concerns about the environment. For example both BC and California have seen devastating wildfires destroy peoples lives, mostly those outside cities.

[Edward Weber]

I'll try to just hit a couple of points.
This is a thread about a CA law, there are already similar laws drawn up, if not passed in many other states.

1.The whole "depending on where you live" makes a big difference
CA is a huge state with 39 million people, there are many different densities of population. LA has about 8,200 people per square mile, where I live, it's less than 200.
A one size fits all approach does not always work or make sense.
2. The average price of a home in CA is about $780k not 1 million.
3. You don't need to have a multi million dollar property to require a lawn tractor
4. Jack, you're right, PG&E along with Net metering is almost making solar a bad investment unless you have it for 25+ years.
5. In the mower comparison, it's not $1700 averaged out over 5 years, it's $1700 MORE. This averages out to $920 per year for 5 years, compared to $560.
6. Doug, if I only had 100 square foot lawn to mow, I would have either a push type reel mower or a small battery mower, There is no disagreement just a different perspective.
7. Legislation based on science is one thing but it can't be done in a bubble.
As I've mentioned, in CA we already have the strictest emission standards, which applies to small engines as well. We need to purchase C.A.R.B. complaint equipment already, we have for years. I think the law should have been 10hp and under with the 11 to 25 hp included 5 years later, or as technology permits.

I'm all for the transition but you can't make perfect the enemy of the good.
Is it better to sell 1 EV or 50 hybrids? Which helps more?
The same type of thing is going on here, being forced to purchase ZEE, even if it's lees efficient in some cases makes no sense.
CA offers incentives for professional landscapers to buy battery equipment but not for the average Joe. Some counties have trade in or rebate programs but not all. So currently, it's a patchwork approach.
make sense.

Nothing is going to happen quickly, those who don't want to change will find ways around until they're out of options. If there were more options, people would change more readily.
The law tells consumers what we can and can't purchase, it's up to the manufacturers to provide us with choices but since they have a captive market, they can do whatever they want, They're not the ones the legislation is effecting.

[Ronald Blue]

Don't think the legislation is telling anyone what their lawn should look like, just that they can't buy a gas powered lawn mower. Don't think I have told anyone either, especially Tom, not sure which of my posts you think did that. I have, perhaps suggested that someone who can afford and has made the lifestyle decision to live on a property with several acres of lawn should be able to afford a small premium for lawn equipment that has a lesser impact on the environment. Yes I have a different perspective as I live in a city but I don't think I'm trying to impose it on anyone else. Yes I live in another country but we all share the same planet and the same concerns about the environment. For example both BC and California have seen devastating wildfires destroy peoples lives, mostly those outside cities.

You made a statement about why people with large yards choose to mow them etc. So that's where this comes from. The decision is based on factors that are totally different than where you live. That's the basis for the initial comment about thinking you know better from thousands of miles away. As I said in a different post even the "natural" landscapes take a great deal of work and even like a lawn have to be looked after constantly or unwanted vegetation will take over. We all make our decisions based on where we live. I do use battery powered tools for weed eating, leaf blowing, chain sawing, and limb cutting. I love them. No finnicky carburetor to get gummed up etc. As for a small premium though. It may be larger then what I currently use but I was looking at deck size and features and that premium isn't small if I wanted a mower with the same basic capacities. I paid $27,000 for electric versus $8400 for what mine was 7 years ago. Even if mine has went up in price 25% that would be 10,500. A huge difference. They will I expect come out with more models that will fall in between. I was looking at Lowes yesterday and they had 2 models. Both were in the 5-6k range. Up to 2 hours mowing time. They might be able to do my yard on a charge. I don't know. I would have to factor in a 1/3 smaller deck. So my hour mowing would turn into probably an hour and a half realistically. I would be giving up features I like however. Like full suspension. So I will take a wait and see. There might be a lot of new options in a couple years.

[Chris Fairbanks]

Being a native Californian I don’t know if people truly understand how cramped and expensive it is in this state. In the major metro areas of SoCal and SoCal the average total lot size is between 2500 sqft and 7500 sqft. There are obviously areas that are way beyond that but, in general that is the average where the bulk of the population live that have a single family home. I won’t go on a rant about PG&E electrical or gas rates but let’s look at water. We pretty much have no rain here from Marc/April till November. So if you want a lawn you have to water it all growing season. They say you need 1” - 1-1/2” of water per week for a lawn. Let’s say you have a small 500sqft lawn (25’x20’), an easy to mow size, 1” a week of water is 3,740 gallons of water. At our current rates of $0.012 per gallon that’s almost $45 a week in just water. So between the costs and the various water districts asking us to remove lawns here, most people who still have grass have very small ones. I ripped out part of my front one two years ago and let the backyard die as I was tired of the crazy water bills. Again the law is just for California and we have unique challenges out here that other states do not. I will be glad when everything is electric as it seems like multiple times a day one of my neighbors gardeners is over mowing or blowing with really loud machines.

[Ronald Blue]

(Side note: "3000 miles away" from anywhere in California is well outside the continental US, typically somewhere lawn maintenance is not an issue.)

We're discussing a California law that may or may not be a good idea, not something that hasn't happened in some state 3000 miles away. But if your state does something similar, it'll be because (1) not enough people there object to it, and/or (2) there are actually good reasons to do it.

Well if that were true then we wouldn't have British Columbia involved in the discussion. That was also the distance the 3,000 miles was derived from. If you choose to read all the thread it's about a comment regarding why someone chooses to mow a large area rather than just letting it grow wild I guess. That happened to be a post from the East coast. Since this has implications for everyone I wasn't aware you had to live in California to comment. We all have opinions however and are free to express them in a civil manner.

[Doug Garson]

From where I live in BC it is just over 1240 miles to San Diego, 3000 miles would take me just south of Mexico City. Not sure I could get 3000 miles from California and still be in BC, I'd probably have to go to the Yukon.

[Lee DeRaud]

From where I live in BC it is just over 1240 miles to San Diego, 3000 miles would take me just south of Mexico City. Not sure I could get 3000 miles from California and still be in BC, I'd probably have to go to the Yukon.

You'll be deep in the Yukon. A quick google reveals that San Diego to Point Barrow (AK) is 3050 miles.

[Doug Garson]

You'll be deep in the Yukon. A quick google reveals that San Diego to Point Barrow (AK) is 3050 miles.

Yeah, I'm guessing they don't have a lot of lawn mowers up there, gas or electric. but snowblowers????

[Lee DeRaud]

Yeah, I'm guessing they don't have a lot of lawn mowers up there, gas or electric. but snowblowers????

For some reason the image of a miniature battery-powered Zamboni just jumped into my head...

[Edward Weber]

I have, perhaps suggested that someone who can afford and has made the lifestyle decision to live on a property with several acres of lawn should be able to afford a small premium for lawn equipment that has a lesser impact on the environment.

A small premium, in the same mower example I've used, it's a 60% increase in price.
You may not be telling anyone what they can or can't do to their property but you sure seem to be dismissive of the situation many have found themselves in through no fault of their own.

If one of your monthly costs like a car payment went up by 60%, I think you might have something to say other than, it's just a small premium.

I'm in the same camp as Ronald, I use battery where it makes sense to do so, have been for years.

As to lesser impact on the environment, I think the trees (approx 100) and all the diverse plants (fruit and veg) on my property, are a net positive to all the wildlife. The birds, bees, rabbits, and so on seem to be happy anyway.
That's my perspective anyhow, to each his own as they say.

[Steve Demuth]

+1 (or more) on Andrew's post.

+1 as well on the like button.

[Steve Demuth]

Am I the only one surprised that this thread has hit triple-digits without getting locked?

No. Was just thinking the same thing myself. Gettin' on some thin ice here and there.

[Doug Garson]

No. Was just thinking the same thing myself. Gettin' on some thin ice here and there.

Hope you didn't jinx it.

[Keith Outten]

It's about 2,500 miles flying from San Francisco to the east coast of Virginia according to Travelmath.
I have never in my life watered a lawn and only on very rare occasions had to spot water my vegetable garden.
We obviously get plenty of rain here.

I am currently working on the piece of land behind my shop. Roto-Tilled over three acres and I am now smoothing the surface that got pretty rough because I allowed local kids to ride their go carts and motor bikes in the field for many years. Looks more like a motocross track in some areas and its a lot of work to get it back to what I consider suitable to mow. I was using my tractor and bush hog about three hours to cut the field twice a month, my new mower will cut it in 29 minutes each time so I mow it every week. Once the field is smooth it will be much more comfortable ride but I am more concerned about the time savings when the temperature is above 95 degrees which will start very soon.

I expect I am to old to be concerned with how long it will be before Virginia changes the laws concerning lawn care equipment. Air quality has never been a problem here, we don't live very close and our cities are tiny compared to where some of you live. What we do have is plenty of forest area, my state is green and the coastal area has rivers everywhere fed from the Atlantic ocean. You can't drive anywhere and not cross multiple bridges. Because it rains here almost every week I don't remember ever seeing a major forest fire. I grew up in a small city but I really enjoy rural living with plenty of space to enjoy the outdoors.

[Edwin Santos]

We recently tore out all the lawn in our front yard and replaced it with desert landscaping, low water use plants and drip irrigation. It's a good choice here in Arizona and in hindsight we like it a lot better by every criteria. I think City of Scottsdale handled it really well. Instead of banning anything, they offered a financial incentive for converting. The incentive covered about half the cost we incurred.

I was impressed how they handled it. You had to submit time stamped photos of the "before" conditions. They responded with a rebate offer using an area calculation based on satellite imagery. Once the work was completed we had to email in time stamped photos with a signed attestation. No person got in a car and had to come out to inspect anything.

In our society I appreciate incentive carrots more than sticks (bans). I'll never understand the sense of large lawns in the desert southwest, especially in front yards where nobody appears to use them.

By the way, on the subject of battery operated equipment. If it is quieter than the gas blowers and mowers, I'm all for it. Good lord, around here there is constant noise from landscaper crews. The blowers are the worst.