​​​​​​​Which one works better for face-gluing two boards

[Howard Rosenberg]

I'm thinking of face gluing two boards to each other.

If I want a longer term mechanical guarantee -

(1)
- are these only for covering screw heads
- or can they be used as dowels too (but only about 7/8 of the way through two boards totaling 1 1/4" thickness
- I like that they can be cut into face grain so they're not too visible
https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop...waAq-HEALw_wcB

(2)
- can these dowel cutters be used in face grain
- or is it only end grain
https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop...-tenon-cutters

Thanks

[John TenEyck]

If you want to use something like a dowel, then why not just use commercial dowels or dowel rod you cut to whatever length you need?

John

[Jim Becker]

I'm with John on that...if the dowels being used to align the boards with each other and provide a slight mechanical advantage are to be hidden, just use common dowels. The plug cutters are indeed indicated for where closing up screw holes, etc., with matching material is desired. The Lee Valley plug cutters, with their slight taper, are great...I've been using them for a couple decades and have both metric and imperial versions.

[Bill Dufour]

I would use biscuts.
Bill D

[Cameron Wood]

Not understanding the question.
- gluing two boards together face to face is strong by itself- adding end grain dowels will not have any benefit if they could even be made without breaking.
- adding long grain dowels will also not have any benefit
- fastening two boards together with counterbored screws and plugging the holes with grain matched plugs does make sense

[Michael Burnside]

Not understanding the question.
- gluing two boards together face to face is strong by itself- adding end grain dowels will not have any benefit if they could even be made without breaking.
- adding long grain dowels will also not have any benefit
- fastening two boards together with counterbored screws and plugging the holes with grain matched plugs does make sense

Equally confused. The long-grain adhesion even on a relatively short/narrow board is going to be absurdly strong with a dowel or other fastener making such a mathematically insignificant contribution as to be unnecessary, if for looks alone.

[Howard Rosenberg]

Thanks for this
Definitely not for looks
This will live outside permanently
Toronto Ontario weather
Cold / heat / non-stop humidity
My thought was to keep the two boards together and not give either of them an opp to lift away from each other

[Howard Rosenberg]

I just might put in face grain dowels using the second link and then pin them perpendicularly

Any thoughts re pinning the dowels?

[Michael Burnside]

If you properly glue them, they will never lift away, regardless of where you're at in the world...they would essentially be one piece of wood. Long grain adhesion is insanely strong. Use epoxy if you're paranoid, which is what I would do for outdoor anyway.

[Howard Rosenberg]

Thanks for this Michael. I never thought of expoxy.
Any suggestions re cleaning up expoxy's overage so the stain covers the wood and not the glue?

[Michael Burnside]

Thanks for this Michael. I never thought of expoxy.
Any suggestions re cleaning up expoxy's overage so the stain covers the wood and not the glue?

For epoxy, I try to use just enough so that you get little to no squeeze out. I recently built a piece of fine furniture entirely using epoxy...it's VERY strong, so you don't need to over do it. Remember epoxy doesn't need a lot of clamping pressure either. People often make the mistake of clamping way too tightly.

For cleanup, it's pretty easy, just use a little acetone. Even with wood glues, I will often use blue tape along critical places and remove once all clamps are applied. With a medium or slow hardener you have plenty of time to clean things up.

[Rod Sheridan]

Thanks for this
Definitely not for looks
This will live outside permanently
Toronto Ontario weather
Cold / heat / non-stop humidity
My thought was to keep the two boards together and not give either of them an opp to lift away from each other

Hi Howard, I have lots of outdoor projects that only are glued together including these planters where the top cedar cap resists all the outward pressure from the soil and stones.

These are 8 years old now, Titebond III in a mortise and tenon joint.

My cedar mailbox is glued together, outside in the sun and rain.

IMG_2893.jpg

I would skip anything other than the glue.

Regards, Rod

[John TenEyck]

White vinegar works great for cleaning up wet epoxy. Safe and cheap, too.

John

[Patty Hann]

White vinegar works great for cleaning up wet epoxy. Safe and cheap, too.

John

Thank you for that... I never knew (until now) what to use that was cheap, readily available and non-toxic.

[Jimmy Harris]

A face grain dowel adds nothing but complexity and increased chances of something going wrong. You need the traditional long grain dowels. They add strength BECAUSE of the grain direction. Turn the grain 90°, and you lose that.

Get a doweling plate, or DIY one out of a log or wide board with a hole in it and an appropriately sized washer or nut. Paul Sellers has some videos on this. You basically cut a sqaure stick to approximate size, then hammer it through the washer to get your dowel. Or just buy premade dowels, as they're not expensive. Or even skip it all together, as TB3 or epoxy should hold up outside on it's own. Even better with a mortise and tenon joint, if you can.

As for what to clean up the epoxy with, it depends on what epoxy you use. Vinegar is acetic acid and water. So it'll work well for some that break down in acid. For others, you'll need a different solvent like acetone. Usually, if you go to the epoxy maker's website, they'll list what works for cleaning them up or thinning them out. You might also consider running masking tape along the glue joints where the wood will be exposed. That way when the glue squeezes our, you can let it get a little gummy and then just remove the tape and squeeze out along with it.