California bans the SALE of gas lawn mowers and leaf blowers after 2024

[Cameron Wood]

I think Roger (and some others) makes a good point--adoption of new technology can and will take place as it becomes more practical and functional. Seems that the mandated adoption may, at times, delay voluntary adoption. When railroads came into existence, wagon trains and stagecoaches were not outlawed--but eventually the marketplace adopted a technology that became proven in use. Same could be said for the automobile, cell phones, computers and more.

Allowing and supporting free enterprise to develop market-driven solutions in the absence of mandates may, in reality, improve adoption by reducing the resistance walls that get built by forcing these sorts of issues through legislation. Shoot, 3 years ago i would not have considered an all-electric vehicle, now i would consider one (but not likely to be a buyer yet). No legislation needed--some makers have demonstrated enough reliability to put EV on my consideration list.

You are considering it in large part because of increasing emission standards and also buyer credits, support/requirements for charging stations, etc.. Free enterprise alone would likely have us with the gas-guzzling, smoggy air of the '60s.

[Pat Germain]

I often hear people who are against government requirements say we should let the free market implement new technologies as it always has. But that's a fallacy. I can think of several things we have now only because they were government-mandated and not from the free market:

- Seat belts
- Air bags
- Electronic fuel injection (necessary for MPG and emissions requirements)
- Overdrive transmissions (necessary for MPG and emissions requirements)
- Anti-Lock brakes
- Rear-view cameras
- Impact crumple zones
- Collapsing steering wheels

It is a fact these technologies have made vehicles more expensive. And I've heard people say they would rather have something new like a 1960s pickup truck. But compared to a new pickup truck, a 1960s pickup truck used a lot more fuel, polluted a lot more and was WAY less safe on the highway. And contrary to another fallacy, the older cars which were gigantic compared to newer cars, were not safer in a crash. You can find a GM video online where they crash tested an old Impala and a newer, smaller Chevrolet and the crash test dummy "passengers" would have died in the old Impala and suffered only minor injuries in the new car.

[Tom M King]

They are getting $75 or more for a 1/2 acre property, and they have enough customers to do forty lawns per day? I know a lot of these guys hustle. With two people they are probably doing that mow, trim, and blow in 15 minutes or less. A lot of these guys can be backing the mower off the trailer within a minute of stopping the truck.

I have about two acres of grass. I figured at least $100 a week for mowing for about $2,000 a year. That $100 is probably on the low side. I spent $12,000 on a real nice mower. In seven or eight years the mower will be paid off compared to a service. I do spend 90 minutes a week on mowing.

These here are usually crews of four. Two trimming, one mowing, and one blowing. Yes, less than 15 minutes total per lot. They usually do a number of adjacent ones before having to move the truck and trailer. Typical half acre lot has less than 1/4 acre under grass, on average.

In Winter, they are getting up leaves. I know most of them because I've furnished them a place to dump leaves for decades. I'm just now reaping the benefits of the leaf dumping.

[Warren Lake]

transmissions should be manual. 12,000 cars were stolen in toronto by punk ass kids in 2023. Most of them can use a computer and steal your car in 1 or 2 minutes but cant drive a manual.

Friends wife driving a 96 roadmaster got Tboned by a school on the passenger side. Car was more than totalled and she survived, the crumple zone is massive.

[Bill Dufour]

I saw a video of modern crash testings a car from 1930? The seats ripped off the floor and slammed into the dashboard behind the crash test dummies. no seat belts so no real load on the seat attachments..
Bill D

[Doug Garson]

How many areas of the country do they cut grass for 50 weeks per year? I figure the mowing season here in Minnesota is around 20 weeks per year if I did my math right. Even in places it doesn't snow the lawns seem to go dormant for part of the year.

Gas engines above 25 HP are exempt as are diesel engines. It isn't hard to find a commercial riding mower that has a gas engine above 25 HP. 31 HP and even 35 HP engines are common on big zero turn mowers these days.

Yeah, my math was intended to show that in a worst case scenario landscapers still have at least two years to make the transition. Like you say, most areas only cut lawns less than half that time so they would have four years to make the transition. So the mandate is far from cold turkey as some suggest.

[Edward Weber]

I often hear people who are against government requirements say we should let the free market implement new technologies as it always has. But that's a fallacy. I can think of several things we have now only because they were government-mandated and not from the free market:

- Seat belts
- Air bags
- Electronic fuel injection (necessary for MPG and emissions requirements)
- Overdrive transmissions (necessary for MPG and emissions requirements)
- Anti-Lock brakes
- Rear-view cameras
- Impact crumple zones
- Collapsing steering wheels

It is a fact these technologies have made vehicles more expensive. And I've heard people say they would rather have something new like a 1960s pickup truck. But compared to a new pickup truck, a 1960s pickup truck used a lot more fuel, polluted a lot more and was WAY less safe on the highway. And contrary to another fallacy, the older cars which were gigantic compared to newer cars, were not safer in a crash. You can find a GM video online where they crash tested an old Impala and a newer, smaller Chevrolet and the crash test dummy "passengers" would have died in the old Impala and suffered only minor injuries in the new car.

I agree with you but none of those items on the list impacted the driver or ownership of the car, those were net benefits.

[Doug Garson]

I think Roger (and some others) makes a good point--adoption of new technology can and will take place as it becomes more practical and functional. Seems that the mandated adoption may, at times, delay voluntary adoption. When railroads came into existence, wagon trains and stagecoaches were not outlawed--but eventually the marketplace adopted a technology that became proven in use. Same could be said for the automobile, cell phones, computers and more.

Allowing and supporting free enterprise to develop market-driven solutions in the absence of mandates may, in reality, improve adoption by reducing the resistance walls that get built by forcing these sorts of issues through legislation. Shoot, 3 years ago i would not have considered an all-electric vehicle, now i would consider one (but not likely to be a buyer yet). No legislation needed--some makers have demonstrated enough reliability to put EV on my consideration list.

Why would free enterprise develop a market driven solution to the problem of air pollution in the absence of legislation? Remember the issue with the hole in the ozone layer? Free enterprise didn't come up with a solution until ozone depleting compounds were banned. Did free enterprise come up with lead free gasoline on their own or only after legislation to eliminate lead? Did the pulp and paper industry install millions of dollars worth of dust collection equipment on their boilers to reduce particulate emissions because they recognized air pollution was a problem on their own or only when governments imposed limits?
Free enterprise is mandated to maximize profits for shareholders, governments are mandated to protect the public. Do you think we would have breathable air in the absence of government legislation?

[Pat Germain]

I agree with you but none of those items on the list impacted the driver or ownership of the car, those were net benefits.

As I said, it forced people to pay a lot more money for their vehicles. The higher sale price also forces people to pay more sales tax, more registration fees and higher insurance premiums. That's a pretty big impact. It also ended hot-rodding for these vehicles which is an American tradition. Technically, it's illegal to put headers and a custom dual exhaust on a modern car, for example. (Although people still do such things like modifying their diesel pickups to "roll coal".)

I remember people in rural Oklahoma cutting the catalytic converters off their pickups because they believed those things would set the field on fire. I was never aware of this actually happening, but people believed it. I remember people removing the thermactor systems (air pump) from their engines because they believed it would improve performance which is simply not true.

I also remember one mandate people simply refused to accept: passive restraints. Wow, did people hate those automatic seat belts! I think they lasted for only a few model years. So, I suppose some forms of rebellion do work. Nothing motivates an automotive manufacturer like thousands of vehicles sitting on dealer lots because nobody wants them.

[Doug Garson]

It's not just the cost increase or environmental benefits, they simply do not make viable battery powered alternatives to many SORE powered machines that are in the gap.

What's your definition of "viable battery powered"? If a smaller machine just takes longer is it not "viable" or just more expensive? If a bigger machine is more awkward to use on a smaller lot and thus takes longer and needs a second smaller machine to assist is it not viable or just more expensive?

[Ronald Blue]

I remember people in rural Oklahoma cutting the catalytic converters off their pickups because they believed those things would set the field on fire. I was never aware of this actually happening, but people believed it. I remember people removing the thermactor systems (air pump) from their engines because they believed it would improve performance which is simply not true.

Took only a moment to find a documented instance of a fire from a catalytic converter. https://www.cbs8.com/article/news/ho...a-32bf2f3585b7

https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/05/us/fe...use/index.html

https://keyt.com/news/san-luis-obisp...-acres-burned/

As for the "smog pump engines". Those were the worst running engines I can recall. It didn't matter who made them they were horrible. Removing the pump by itself wouldn't help performance but there plenty of other things that would.

[Edward Weber]

What's your definition of "viable battery powered"? If a smaller machine just takes longer is it not "viable" or just more expensive? If a bigger machine is more awkward to use on a smaller lot and thus takes longer and needs a second smaller machine to assist is it not viable or just more expensive?

Semantics huh.

Viable to me means, capable of completing the job in an efficient manner.
So no, a small machine may complete the task but the time lost and additional wear and tear plus the additional fuel on an undersized machine makes it less viable.
A larger machine as you described, is just as bad, thus making it also less viable.

The machine (whatever it is) should be as closely sized to the job it's intended to do within reason.
I don't mow my field with my 21" push mower, it would takes hours, overwork the machine and burn lots of fuel. that mower is for the lawn.
I mow the field with the 60" mower and my tractor but I can't use it on the lawn due to maneuverability, weight, and size.
The right sized tool for the job
Not too difficult a concept to grasp.

The law in CA leaves those in the middle of the extremes with less, and yes more expensive, options.

(Fuel is either battery or gas, you need to recharge batteries and you electricity isn't free)

[andrew whicker]

We do have to figure out how to recycle lithium and people are working on it. There isn't enough lithium on the planet to support our energy needs.

That said, energy is only going to get more expensive and gas engines will be phased out. The discomfort of doing things like this now vs doing nothing is orders of magnitude less.

Solutions are coming and ramping up quickly.

A good podcast is "hardware to save the planet" that talks to start up companies trying to solve energy from all sorts of angles.

Edit: also I do think government has a role in making it easier on people to transition (ie subsidies etc). And there are plenty of wealth hoarders out there to help pay into the system that are not currently doing that.

[Pat Germain]

I remember people in rural Oklahoma cutting the catalytic converters off their pickups because they believed those things would set the field on fire. I was never aware of this actually happening, but people believed it. I remember people removing the thermactor systems (air pump) from their engines because they believed it would improve performance which is simply not true.

Took only a moment to find a documented instance of a fire from a catalytic converter. https://www.cbs8.com/article/news/ho...a-32bf2f3585b7

https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/05/us/fe...use/index.html

https://keyt.com/news/san-luis-obisp...-acres-burned/

As for the "smog pump engines". Those were the worst running engines I can recall. It didn't matter who made them they were horrible. Removing the pump by itself wouldn't help performance but there plenty of other things that would.

Thank you for the reference.

Yeah, the smog engines were pretty bad. They took very good V8 engines and choked them with low compression, EGR valves, retarded valve timing and restrictive catalytic converters.

[Brian Elfert]

transmissions should be manual. 12,000 cars were stolen in toronto by punk ass kids in 2023. Most of them can use a computer and steal your car in 1 or 2 minutes but cant drive a manual.

If every car had a manual transmission don't you think the kids would learn how to drive a manual? It is the scarcity of manual transmissions that make them a lot more theft proof. Few people learn how to drive a manual transmission because there are so few vehicles with manual transmissions.

It has been a good fifteen years since I drive a vehicle with a manual transmissions. I am not sure I could even remember how to drive one.