California bans the SALE of gas lawn mowers and leaf blowers after 2024

[Edward Weber]

Seems to me, even if the cost of landscape maintenance is increased, the health and environmental benefits may be worth it.

It's not just the cost increase or environmental benefits, they simply do not make viable battery powered alternatives to many SORE powered machines that are in the gap.

I'm all for small mowers and blowers going electric, that's fine for the 10hp and under tools.
It's the mid range tools at the 10 to 25 hp range that will be impacted the most IMO. Whether it be the initial cost or the usefulness of the tool. This is the gap that will take the longest to fill.

Small properties will not feel much impact and larger properties won't feel much impact. The mid size parcels of about 1 or 2 acres will get hit the hardest. Too big for small tools and too small for commercial tools.

[Doug Garson]

It's not just the cost increase or environmental benefits, they simply do not make viable battery powered alternatives to many SORE powered machines that are in the gap.

But isn't that just a matter of priorities? If you prioritize cost over the health benefits, then you need a gas powered machine to mow a football field but if you prioritize health benefits over cost, then you accept the higher cost (in time) to mow it with a smaller battery powered machine or even a bunch of hand push mowers.
California is a big market and as others have said, other states will soon follow, so manufacturers have a big incentive to come up with solutions.

[roger wiegand]

Just as an example, here's a 60" commercial mower that would meet the needs of many of the guys who work around our neighborhoods https://www.lawnmowercornerusa.com/p...ero-turn-mower Good for 14 (call it 10 in reality) acres a day, three hour full recharge. If the technology isn't there today it's pretty darn close.

I expect you'll be seeing mowers in this category moving to larger, higher voltage battery packs. Think car batteries not power drill batteries. At least in our area the landscapers are driving $120K pickup trucks, I don't think they'll choke on a $20K mower if it makes them money. As I mentioned before, we're already seeing adoption in the absence of any regulation. Leaf blowers and string trimmers are probably already at 50% (some towns have adopted bans on gas powered versions of those), I've seen a few of the big stand-on/ride-on electrics around town.

It wouldn't surprise me at all if, as for cars, the total cost of ownership is lower over the lifespan of an electric mower (so says the guy who just got a $1200 bill to fix his gas mower).

As to battery recycling, there are buckets of money to be made solving that problem. Lots of smart people (with big investment backing) working on recovering the relatively concentrated and valuable minerals they contain. I strongly suspect that one will solve itself. It's working profitably at pilot scale and with manufacturing waste (an easier problem), I think it's just good engineering to make it work at scale, and that's something we're generally good at. (FWIW, I'm an optimist)

[Doug Garson]

As to battery recycling, there are buckets of money to be made solving that problem. Lots of smart people (with big investment backing) working on recovering the relatively concentrated and valuable minerals they contain. I strongly suspect that one will solve itself. It's working profitably at pilot scale and with manufacturing waste (an easier problem), I think it's just good engineering to make it work at scale, and that's something we're generally good at. (FWIW, I'm an optimist)

I think it is far past pilot scale size. Here is a quote from the link I provided earlier:
"The Massachusetts-based company (Ascend Elements )opened a recycling plant in Covington, Georgia in late March that it says is the largest electric-vehicle battery recycling facility in North America. It can process 30,000 metric tons of input each year, breaking down old batteries and prepping the most valuable materials inside to be processed and turned into new batteries. That capacity equates to breaking down the battery packs from 70,000 electric vehicles annually, said Ascend CEO Mike O’Kronley. For context, Redwood Materials, another battery recycling startup, told us its Nevada facility is already processing 40,000 metric tons of input annually, equivalent to around 100,000 battery packs." and they are not the only players in the game.

[Ronald Blue]

The Greenworks has already discontinued the model Roger linked. Here is the replacement model and it's a lot higher priced. https://www.greenworkscommercial.com...ero-turn-mower At $26,999 it's 3 times what my same size Simplicity cost. I'd love to try one just for comparison purposes. Claims it will mow up to 21 acres and last up to 8 hours. From what I read because of the high battery output it qualifies for the Federal 30% tax break. It weighs over 1700 lbs. which a lot of that has to be batteries. So I guess if you want to spend enough money there are commercial mowers available that are pretty impressive. Mowing speed up to 16 MPH as well.

[Tom M King]

I think that one would be more properly compared to a commercial one in cost. The cost of fuel not burned should be factored in too. The 35hp Kawasaki in my mower burns at least 2-1/2 gallons an hour at whatever the rpm is at WO throttle, which it asks for. For commercial mowers, an extra 7 or 8 grand is not that big of a deal, especially when no time is spent going after gas, and no money buying gas. My mower weighs 1700 pounds too, but it tops out at 14 mph, which seems plenty fast enough. To buy a new mower like mine now is a bit over 18k. I would have paid extra for quieter and not having to bother with gas, but it was not an option.

[Roger Feeley]

I mow about 7/8 acre with a John Deere rider. In the winter, I can convert the tractor to a 44” snow blower. I really don’t like having multiple engines and this lets one engine do both things. I would love it if I could convert that tractor to electric but I don’t have high hopes.

the good news is that that tractor is my only gas engine other than my car. As others have posted, small things like string trimmers and leaf blowers are great use cases for batteries. I settled on ryobi cordless for outdoor stuff and dewalt for the shop.

[Brian Elfert]

The Greenworks has already discontinued the model Roger linked. Here is the replacement model and it's a lot higher priced. https://www.greenworkscommercial.com...ero-turn-mower At $26,999 it's 3 times what my same size Simplicity cost. I'd love to try one just for comparison purposes. Claims it will mow up to 21 acres and last up to 8 hours. From what I read because of the high battery output it qualifies for the Federal 30% tax break. It weighs over 1700 lbs. which a lot of that has to be batteries. So I guess if you want to spend enough money there are commercial mowers available that are pretty impressive. Mowing speed up to 16 MPH as well.

They have a less expensive model with smaller battery. That one is probably closer to the discontinued model.

[Jim Becker]

Commercial grade, large mowers with gasoline or diesel engines are not inexpensive, either...and you have to feed them regularly.

[Brian Elfert]

The guys around here work long hours. One crew told me they do 40 yards a day. Those are all 1/2 acre lots with less than half under grass. People pump water out of the lake to water grass.

At 75 to 100 per, that's 3 or 4 grand a day, which should leave room to buy batteries. Cost probably depends on how many fireworks launchers they have to trim around.

They are getting $75 or more for a 1/2 acre property, and they have enough customers to do forty lawns per day? I know a lot of these guys hustle. With two people they are probably doing that mow, trim, and blow in 15 minutes or less. A lot of these guys can be backing the mower off the trailer within a minute of stopping the truck.

I have about two acres of grass. I figured at least $100 a week for mowing for about $2,000 a year. That $100 is probably on the low side. I spent $12,000 on a real nice mower. In seven or eight years the mower will be paid off compared to a service. I do spend 90 minutes a week on mowing.

[Earl McLain]

Just as an example, here's a 60" commercial mower that would meet the needs of many of the guys who work around our neighborhoods https://www.lawnmowercornerusa.com/p...ero-turn-mower Good for 14 (call it 10 in reality) acres a day, three hour full recharge. If the technology isn't there today it's pretty darn close.

I expect you'll be seeing mowers in this category moving to larger, higher voltage battery packs. Think car batteries not power drill batteries. At least in our area the landscapers are driving $120K pickup trucks, I don't think they'll choke on a $20K mower if it makes them money. As I mentioned before, we're already seeing adoption in the absence of any regulation. Leaf blowers and string trimmers are probably already at 50% (some towns have adopted bans on gas powered versions of those), I've seen a few of the big stand-on/ride-on electrics around town.

It wouldn't surprise me at all if, as for cars, the total cost of ownership is lower over the lifespan of an electric mower (so says the guy who just got a $1200 bill to fix his gas mower).

As to battery recycling, there are buckets of money to be made solving that problem. Lots of smart people (with big investment backing) working on recovering the relatively concentrated and valuable minerals they contain. I strongly suspect that one will solve itself. It's working profitably at pilot scale and with manufacturing waste (an easier problem), I think it's just good engineering to make it work at scale, and that's something we're generally good at. (FWIW, I'm an optimist)

I think Roger (and some others) makes a good point--adoption of new technology can and will take place as it becomes more practical and functional. Seems that the mandated adoption may, at times, delay voluntary adoption. When railroads came into existence, wagon trains and stagecoaches were not outlawed--but eventually the marketplace adopted a technology that became proven in use. Same could be said for the automobile, cell phones, computers and more.

Allowing and supporting free enterprise to develop market-driven solutions in the absence of mandates may, in reality, improve adoption by reducing the resistance walls that get built by forcing these sorts of issues through legislation. Shoot, 3 years ago i would not have considered an all-electric vehicle, now i would consider one (but not likely to be a buyer yet). No legislation needed--some makers have demonstrated enough reliability to put EV on my consideration list.

[Brian Elfert]

Yes, but the ban is not on the use but only the sale of new gas powered lawnmowers etc. Commercial lawnmowers have a life expectancy of about 2500 hours. Assuming 5 hours a day, 5 days a week, 50 weeks a year that would be about 2 years. Given the advancements in battery technology, it's not unreasonable to expect that big hole will be at least partially closed.
Seems to me, even if the cost of landscape maintenance is increased, the health and environmental benefits may be worth it.

How many areas of the country do they cut grass for 50 weeks per year? I figure the mowing season here in Minnesota is around 20 weeks per year if I did my math right. Even in places it doesn't snow the lawns seem to go dormant for part of the year.

Gas engines above 25 HP are exempt as are diesel engines. It isn't hard to find a commercial riding mower that has a gas engine above 25 HP. 31 HP and even 35 HP engines are common on big zero turn mowers these days.

[Ronald Blue]

I think that one would be more properly compared to a commercial one in cost. The cost of fuel not burned should be factored in too. The 35hp Kawasaki in my mower burns at least 2-1/2 gallons an hour at whatever the rpm is at WO throttle, which it asks for. For commercial mowers, an extra 7 or 8 grand is not that big of a deal, especially when no time is spent going after gas, and no money buying gas. My mower weighs 1700 pounds too, but it tops out at 14 mph, which seems plenty fast enough. To buy a new mower like mine now is a bit over 18k. I would have paid extra for quieter and not having to bother with gas, but it was not an option.

I was just looking at the one that was comparable to my unit. It's also commercial duty. Weighs 1400 lbs. and has full suspension (Ferris twin) and fuel injected 28HP Briggs and Stratton engine. I would have loved to have had the Greenworks a couple weeks ago. The local high school through whatever you want to call it had a mess. Their John Deere was broke down and apparently there must have been an issue with parts. Whatever the whole backstory was they had about 5 acres that had never been mowed that was nearly a foot tall of blue grass. My son negotiated a one time deal with them (it was for my grandsons benefit) to knock it down. I not having anything else to do and living close by went to work on it. I ran with the deck full up and the deflector up. Obviously you don't travel fast in those conditions. Love those gator blades though. They do such a great job of ejecting the cuttings. The first go around I mowed for 3 hours and burnt 5 gallons of gas. I spent about 2-1/2 hours the second time and my grandson got there to help so it made things go much quicker with a second mower. This would have been a great test to see what the Greenworks mower was made of. I know your Cub Cadet is a beast of a mower. You have way more mowing than I do though.

[Pat Germain]

Seems to me the landscaping industry will simply have to adapt. When we complain the current battery technology won't work, what we're saying is it won't work for the current way we plant and maintain landscaping. The way we currently plant and maintain landscaping makes little sense. It's designed to support a very expensive industry which requires enormous amounts of water, burns a whole lot of fossil fuel and produces a whole lot of air pollution, chemical pollution and noise pollution. And that industry will have to change or it will simply go away.

Anybody know where a guy who makes buggy whips can get a job?

[Edward Weber]

But isn't that just a matter of priorities? If you prioritize cost over the health benefits, then you need a gas powered machine to mow a football field but if you prioritize health benefits over cost, then you accept the higher cost (in time) to mow it with a smaller battery powered machine or even a bunch of hand push mowers.
California is a big market and as others have said, other states will soon follow, so manufacturers have a big incentive to come up with solutions.

Why not just make a battery powered mower the proper size for the job?
CA has 40 million residents and many of us mow 9 months a year + or - depending on mother nature.

You keep talking about the costs, yes currently they are much higher for battery powered machines, that's not my main point. The point is that they are not always a direct comparison, they're not always as good, regardless of costs. If people could go out and buy the exact same machines they have now, same power, same run time, same lifespan, same everything, that would be fine but they can't, no matter the price. The current selections are Box store home owner quality or professional and there is a huge gap in the middle

Why do you think Toyota, the largest car maker in the world didn't jump on the EV craze?Because we're not ready, the technology isn't there to make it a smooth transition. They didn't see the need to suffer from all the turmoil a gap in the system would cause. While they've continued to make hybrids ubiquitous, they also research and develop battery only tech (they have 3 models available)

(side note) unintended consequences of EV's. more tire wear, more brake wear and more road damage due to the increased weight of a comparable ICE car.

Quitting cold turkey and mandates, is not always the best approach. As many have said, we've already been transitioning to battery on our own, without any outside intervention.