New Old Shaper - Wadkin BEM

[andrew whicker]

Congrats! That's an awesome machine. Now I need a 15 HP shaper.

What kind of 3 phase are you manufacturing? Are you manufacturing a Wye or a Delta? My shop is a Delta which gives it a "wild leg", but if your "manufactured 3 phase" gives you Wye then you shouldn't have a wild leg. I'm not sure if there is an advantage to one or the other as three phase motors care only about phase to phase and not phase to leg (as far as I understand. Do your own research, etc.). In both setups (Wye and Delta), phase to phase is the same.

I'm also not sure if the switches care what leg it gets fed even with a wild leg (beyond my electrical knowledge), but most machines are set up so that the wild leg is Leg 2 / T2. You swap L1 and L3 if the motor direction needs to be reversed.

Do you have a photo of the motor name plate?

In my research, I found that most 3 phase motors have a Low Voltage and High Voltage option depending on how you wire the motor. You should be able to wire it either way. On my shaper, the switch doesn't decided the motor wiring. My motor wiring was decided underneath the pop out cover on the motor. There may be a wiring diagram near your nameplate. There wasn't on my big motor so I had to Google the motor manufacturer to find it.

3 Phase.png

[andrew whicker]

I had a switch doing this (on my single phase 220v table saw) and fixed it by blowing it out w/ air and re-connecting everything. Sometimes it's a loose or dirty connection. ?

The other time, same machine, I replaced the switch and it has been fine ever since.

Did you get to check if it was running before you picked it up?

[andrew whicker]

I'm not an electrician, but it seems like a switch problem not a motor problem. Motors seem pretty simple. I think they'll pretty much run on anything. Maybe too fast, maybe too slow, maybe too hot, etc., but they do seem to run if you give them energy. You could definitely make sure the motor is wired for LV or HV first and foremost. Maybe it's as simple as that.

Obviously, not an electrician. So.. you know. Grain of salt and all that.

[Phillip Mitchell]

Ok, I have gotten it to start and run normal by removing the drive belt to the spindle. What I didn’t realize earlier is that the main black switch on the contactor was being thrown off and I needed to reset it to on. After this I tried multiple start attempts that all did the same thing that happened initially - started, ran for a few seconds and cuts out before it can come up to speed.

The inrush current pegs the amp meter (maxes out at 90 amps) and then settles at 10 amps under no load / no belt.

What does this mean?

To complicate matters further, I opened up the junction box where the starter wires connect to the motor wires and am finding some conflicting information. There was a folded up paper wiring diagram in the box (how thoughtful) and the labeled leads do not match either diagram for high voltage or low voltage according to paper schematic. Im not sure what to make of this.

[Bill Dufour]

If the motor is wired for high voltage and you are supplying it with low voltage it can not take in enough amps past the back EMF so the overloads will not trip.
You seem to have two adjustable overload dials? Red and yellow. I am not sure how to read what they are set to. Give us the two numbers please.
Bill D

[andrew whicker]

https://control.com/technical-articl...-twelve-wires/

This looks promising.



All my motors are 6 wire:

https://control.com/technical-articl...-phase-motors/

[Phillip Mitchell]

If the motor is wired for high voltage and you are supplying it with low voltage it can not take in enough amps past the back EMF so the overloads will not trip.
You seem to have two adjustable overload dials? Red and yellow. I am not sure how to read what they are set to. Give us the two numbers please.
Bill D

see this photo

[Phillip Mitchell]

https://control.com/technical-articl...-twelve-wires/

This looks promising.



All my motors are 6 wire:

https://control.com/technical-articl...-phase-motors/

I felt like I was understanding that article until it showed the actual wiring diagrams and I can’t seem to wrap my brain around how to translate that to the wires in front of me.

Seems like what I would want based on that is low voltage Wye start and Low voltage delta run, but I don’t know how to mix that with what my RPC is supplying, which I thought was Delta, but this is beyond my pay grade and level of experience so not sure I can even say what I think I’d want or have, to be honest.

[Bill Dufour]

see this photo

Thanks for the enlargement. Looks like his 27 amp motor is running from a 16amp overload. Not sure if the red dial is set to 220 volts for the coil voltage or what that means.
What does the onboard amp meter show when you get it running steady under no load? Then under load as it trips out.
I think the overload is undersized.

[Phillip Mitchell]

Thanks for the enlargement. Looks like his 27 amp motor is running from a 16amp overload. Not sure if the red dial is set to 220 volts for the coil voltage or what that means.
What does the onboard amp meter show when you get it running steady under no load? Then under load as it trips out.
I think the overload is undersized.

Thanks Bill, I appreciate the trouble shooting help.

Here is another photo with the cover open and the yellow dial turned past 16 to the max that it will rotate. I tried it with belt on and this yellow dial overload setting and similar result with tripping occurring before motor comes up to full speed.

Not sure what numerical value that represents, but yes, 16 amp overload setting on a 27.4 amp motor does seem odd. Remember that j did see video of it running normally just a few weeks ago from the seller and they did not change anything.

When I removed the drive belt and got it to start and run normally it pegged the meter (90+) at start up and leveled out at 10 amps when running.

Not sure if you saw the wiring diagram photos and 12 wire motor, but I am now scratching my head about that as the way it’s currently wired does not match either diagram, either high or low voltage and not sure what I’m currently working with.

[Bill Dufour]

If it was 16 amps at high voltage then about 32 amps at low would seem correct. So I think the overloads are set for the high voltage amp draw. This makes me think the motor is wired for high voltage as well.
take all this with a grain of salt as I really now nothing about three phase beyound what a VFD produces which is only low voltage. At least the lower priced VFD's I have bought. I never needed high voltage so never studied it.
Wait for more experienced folks to confirm or deny my theory.
What make is the motor? Maybe some one can come up with a factory wiring diagram. At least for some similar Italian? motor
Bill D