Insulation around pot lights?

[Robert Hartmann]

Sorry for the long explanation just to ask if you can insulate pot lights, but I'm thinking I need to do more.

We bought a new house last Apr. As we go through the first year some things needing fixed have popped up. The -4 deg we had the other day brought a new issue. First I discovered the auxiliary heat on the main furnace (we have 3) is apparently on it's own breaker and it had been shut off. The temp was down to 48 by the time I found that. With it back on the heat still couldn't catch up. We ended up running both fireplaces (one gas and one propane) and two oil-filled portable heaters all day for two days.

Along with a few door seals that need replaced I discovered a serious cold draft coming through two pot lights in our kitchen. The kitchen is on the main floor with bedrooms above. The kitchen is fairly large. It's rectangular and the end with the sink (outside wall) overhangs the lower part of the house, so it basically sticks out about 5-7 ft. At first we thought the windows needed replaced. I discovered the two pot lights directly over the sink had a pretty serious cold draft coming in almost as if a fan was on. I stuffed a couple towels around them as a temporary fix (they are on a separate circuit). I don't get the draft from the rest of the lights in the kitchen, just the two over the sink.

So, any thoughts on best approach? I thought I could put some insulation around the lights, but not sure how or if it's safe. I wonder if the insulation on the outside wall above the kitchen is the issue. Can insulation be sprayed through the pot light holes?

Since there isn't a draft coming through the rest of the lights it seems there is some barrier between the two lights and the rest of the kitchen. It's definitely cold by the sink (as in about 10 deg cooler than the house).

thanks, Rob
Lights.jpg

[Tom M King]

Some are made for contact with insulation, and some are not. I don't know if you pull the cover down if you can see any information.

[Mike Cutler]

Robert

Recessed lighting, as Tom pointed out, can be approved for zero clearance to insulation, and may not be approved.
“Generally”, if the fixture is in a metal enclosure, the insulation can make contact with the sides of the box, but not the top! But, you need the manufacturers installation literature to be certain.
If the fixture is not inside a zero clearance, enclose, then you’re probably not approved for insulation contact.
However, in the installation instructions for the fixture enclosure, there is generally a diagram detailing the minimum distance from the fixture, to the insulation.
I’ve never installed recessed LED lighting, but the LED ceiling fixtures I have installed seemed to mimic a standard incandescent lighting fixture for insulation contact and minimum distance.

[Andrew More]

Pot lights are a bad idea from an insulation perspective to begin with. Basically all pot lights involve cutting a hole in the insulating envelope of your home. Then all the expensive condition air leaks out through a large hole as you've discovered.
It's doubly bad to still have them with the new LED replacements. My advice is to replace them with a couple of LED pucks that go over the holes, and seal off the air leak. I believe these are fine with any type of insulation, except direct contact with spray foam. Replacement should be a quick, easy, cheap DIY project for most people on this forum.

[Maurice Mcmurry]

These can light covers are a helpful product. The old fashioned recessed lights are becoming more and more un-popular for the reasons mentioned.

Tenmat Recessed Light Cover FF130E - The Home Depot

[Doug Garson]

If I understand your post, the pot lights are within the heated envelope of the house not in the ceiling of a space with unheated attic above. I think much of the advice given so far is more applicable to the latter case. If there is cold air in the ceiling that is your problem. You need to find how that cold air is getting into the ceiling space and stop it there. If you just seal the pot lights, the cold draft may be gone but you are still losing heat and paying to replace it. You say it is a new house, is it still under warranty? Maybe you have to contact the builder, sounds like they didn't properly seal and insulate the wall space between the ceiling and upper floor. Is the floor in the space above cold?

[Maurice Mcmurry]

Doug sounds correct. My mind is stuck on can lights in the attic. The in-between heated upstairs location slipped by me. I wonder if a plumbing vent penetration or range hood vent could be leaking cold air down from the attic or joist end? One good thing about these cold snaps is that they can lead you to what grand dad called "phenomena holes".

[Jim Becker]

Since there's a bedroom above, I'm guessing that the root cause of the draft is at the band-joist area between the floors..air infiltration and possibly no insulation or improperly installed insulation. As has been noted, insulation around the fixture itself really depends upon what kind of fixture and if it's rated for direction contact or not.

[Doug Garson]

Sorry for the long explanation just to ask if you can insulate pot lights, but I'm thinking I need to do more.

Actually, the long explanation is essential in helping you solve your problem. Too often it takes several rounds of questions and answers before it is clear what the problem is. If you had just asked "can I insulate pot lights?" you would have got correct answers to your question but not what you needed to solve your problem.

[Bill Dufour]

I do not see how to install insualtion in the ceiling except blown in spray foam or celluslose through the pot light holes. You may have to drill more holes between each joist and then replaster the entire ceiling. For now I would use fireblock seal on the cans to seal the wiring holes etc.
My bathroom had a pot light with no lens or trim. I unscrewed the bulb and used a special telescopic led bulb/lens from the dollar store. It pushes up to seal off the hole.
Bill D.
similar to link.
https://www.amazon.com/Jolux-Adjusta...09DW26VWG&th=1

[Robert Hartmann]

Thanks for all the advice. The house was built in 2002, so not new. The kitchen (and lights) is on the main floor, so finished space above and below. No real access to the area other than through the lights or cut a hole. I have towels stuffed around them right now and it seems to have cut off the draft. I'm guessing there is another barrier between the lights closes to the outside wall and the next set of lights with not so good insulation on the outer area. The only cold air coming in is through the two lights closet to the outside wall.

I'll probably use the lights Bill suggested for now to block off the lights. I'll see how that works. You all have convinced me I shouldn't mess with the insulation, so I'll probably call someone in and see if they can get insulation in that area. I'm thinking some blown insulation of some type should do the trick.

[Doug Garson]

If you can pull out the pot lights you might be able to stick a camera (smartphone) and a strong light up and see what is going on at the wall/ceiling space.

[George Yetka]

Don't quote me but even if its a no contact can, if you convert it to LED then the lack of heat should make it safe.

[Maurice Mcmurry]

I am often surprised by things that are found during an energy audit. A blower door test with infrared observation can show the source of air leaks as well as inadequate insulation. Our town has a free program.

[Kevin Jenness]

Funny how a thread title can throw me off. Around here those are called can lights. Pot lights are found in grow rooms.