Have an honest conversation with anyone who has sleep apnea and they can tell you about the effects of sleep deprivation.Originally Posted by Edwin Santos
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Have an honest conversation with anyone who has sleep apnea and they can tell you about the effects of sleep deprivation.
Confidence: The feeling you experience before you fully understand the situation
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Jerry your interest in me is a little concerning.
My post held a reminder that you cannot foresee all of the dangers that lurk.
The router speed control cannot be trusted, and a malfunctioning speed control can cause you some pain. Your welcome.
Ref; Methods for dealing with all nighters; Stay awake!
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Mark, trust me I'm nothing to be concerned about and it's not really an interest in you but in your methods.
I went back and reread some of the posts, there was definitely some name calling and a few not so nice things being implied. You and some other members defended yourselves.
I, like you, also have a background in metal working. Trained as a machinist in the Navy and have held a millwright journeymans card for 30 years. During the training for both trades we were always taught to use the proper tool for the task and to use the tool in the proper way. That way you can greatly reduce any harm to you, the machinery and the tools.
The only reason I'm concerned with some peoples methods is that people that come to this website looking for advice and instruction on how to perform a process on a machine they are not familiar with may get advice that doesn't fit their skill level. I personally have never operated a jointer in my life. But if I come here and read some threads about jointing I may say "don't need no stinking guard" only to find out that my not having 50 years of experience jointing boards is going to end badly.
I also understand that if the only person you have to answer to is yourself your comfort level of safety standards, written or implied, are different than people who work for a large corporation that is governed by OSHA or the equivalent agency in your country. So if I'm amazed that you use a router for toolpost grinding and milling on the lathe instead of a toolpost grinder and a milling machine please don't be offended.
I will say that you have done some very impressive work and I would some day like to work to the level of many of the members here. In the meantime if I come across as some type of safety nut please excuse me ...it's just the way I've been trained.
Confidence: The feeling you experience before you fully understand the situation
[OP]
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The problem that took ms a while to overcome with the belt sander was coarse sandpaper tracks that were left behind while flattening a face frame or the panel of a raised panel door. They are invisible until you think you are done and have moved on to staining. Eventually I learned to work more accurately and coarse sandpaper was no longer needed. I am little behind on reading all of the injury and safety posts. Dad did have a very painful injury when the belt sander caught on his jeans and rolled the fleshy part of his thigh up in-between the back wheel and the case of the machine. It was one of those big old Rockwell's that look like a locomotive.
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Jerry,
I had my training in school shop class in the late 60's in England. We had a woodshop and a metal shop.
The rest I figured out on my own.
Woodworking I started with handtools and quickly progressed up to machinery, then and up to big-ass machinery and automatic machinery.
My first jointer was a delta 6", my second was a w. Klein and sons 24". I bought old machines and fixed the up. the best way to understand a machine in my book.
I am a tinkerer by nature, I need to know how things work. I spent endless days and sleepless nights trying to understand cutting tools and how they function with the material. I bought 2000lb tool and cutter grinders and experimented with various tool geometry in a desire to know what and how they work, I have studied wood and wood structure so I have an understanding of it's nature. I have designed cutting tools, and built automatic machinery. I have owned jointers, thicknessers, shapers, bandsaws, Automatic mortisers, automatic tenoners, chop-saws, all types of sanders, and supersurfacers and lathes. I have rebuilt dozens of machines and owned a lot of metalwork machines, I currently own a lathe, surface grinders and a milling machine, I did own a Bridgeport mill for many years. I have used dozens of grinders from pencil, die grinders, disk grinders, bench grinders, tool and cutter grinders, surface grinders, straight knife grinders, ( manual, automatic and CNC)
The first person that I saw injured in a shop was in the metal shop in England, one of my classmates cut off his finger on the metal bandsaw. A good lesson for the rest of us in the class.
If I choose not to use a guard on my jointer, it is because that is the way that I feel the safest. I trust my machine, I know how it works and what it will do, I understand the material and the cutting process and I have control of the wood, I have a process, I check and clean the wood, i sight down it, so see what I am dealing with, have my safety glasses, dust mask and earplugs, I roll my sleeves up, I make sure that my work area is clean, I don't want anything in my way, including a guard. I focus because I am acutely aware of the danger. Starting up a 24" jointer will get your attention. For the most part I use my hands to control the wood, I have places that I put my fingers and ways that I hold the wood, this is thought out and planed, and not haphazard. I know were my fingers are. I did some work for a surgeon many years back, he told me a story about a man that ran his hand over a jointer and filleted all of the bones out of it. I have no desire to do the same. I have a system that works for me and i have have the focus, discipline and commitment to follow my "rules" My "rules" are my way, they don't have numbers like " never get closer than 4" to a cutter" My way is to understand what you are doing and adapt it to suit the situation at the time. If I need to get up close and personal to a cutter, I have to make a judgement call, and make a decision as to whether there is a reasonable chance of success. It's all down to knowing as much about what you are doing as you can and your confidence in being able to do it.
I love using the jointer. I don't understand people who say they find it boring, or the chop the top off their finger by dragging it across the cutterhead, not thinking, wasn't paying attention. Maybe its because they have a guard on that they take using a jointer so nonchalant.
I am a safety nut! Most people just don't get it.
If I was to offer advice; don't trust anything that I say, or anyone else, make sure that you know what you are doing.
Safety comes in different forms, commercial shop safety is a different animal than personal safety.
When your a kid your parents are responsible for your safety.
When you are an adult you take on that responsibility yourself.
If you copy people without understanding what you are doing, you will get hurt!
If you follow others rules without understanding them, you will get hurt.
I can have an accident any day. The older I get the higher the probability that I will, that's life.
The workshop is a dangerous place.
Last edited by Mark Hennebury; 11-02-2022 at 7:47 PM.
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When it comes to safety there is no substitute for paying attention.
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pay attention comes after knowing what you are doing. Enough posts on here over the years of people paying attention that were hurt because they didnt know that what they were doing was unsafe.
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You need to know the capabilities and limitations of your equipment. You should really have a pretty in depth knowledge of all the tools you use before you turn them on unsupervised.
The more you know about the tools and the wood you're using, the safer you'll be, period.
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People say shapers but I do not really see much difference in a shaper and a router table. I wonder how many time I have been sliced by a sharp chisel that is just laying on the bench, that I wasn't paying attention to.
Tom
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router table is a toy.
The shaper was the most dangerous but that changed when people stopped using the different generations of free cutters. Slip edge, serrated edge. At that point we are talking projectiles and ive been around that twice when that has happened. Corrugated came after serrated edge and was safer.
Labelling any machine depends on what you are doing, making a 30 foot gothic window with huge honking old school knives is another level. In one shop the old guy ran there was one large room with two shaper operators who worked alone. One of them eventually quit to do something safer and become a cop. Now a days with all the punk ass kids that have guns and shapers going to insert and safer tooling he be better to have stayed a shaper operator.
Member
As most all have mentioned, the tool you do not know how to use safely and correctly.
Working in aviation maintenance and production my career, plus military, seen bad stuff happen with out proper knowledge, etc….
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Jointer accidents are all too prevalent among woodworkers using "safety" gear, but not having developed a safe process or the discipline to follow it.
All of the gear, safety guard, safety grippers. Warnings on the safety guard, and these people still got hurt. Even the self proclaimed experts with hundreds of thousands of followers.
Just using safety equipment won't protect you, it may in fact give you a false sense of security and make you more likely to get injured.
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Last edited by Mark Hennebury; 11-05-2022 at 6:47 PM.
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Oh no, did he lose 4 fingers??
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Yes.
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In an alternate universe, one where facts, logic and reasoning prevailed, people with 50 years experience of using a jointer without injury would receive some respect. Maybe people would humbly ask to be aloud the honor to observe and learn. And those with no experience, just talk, would be ignored for the fools that they are.
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