Do you have a radial arm saw and do you use it?

[Phillip Gregory]

I am with you here. How are the guys dato cuting well building a 96 inch shelf using a tablesaw or sliding chopsaw . My sliding tablesaw will not hold a three-quarter dado blade or any dato blade. My craftsman will.

Europeans banned dado stacks under one of their "health and safety directives," and thus newer European saws were made so they can only accommodate a single blade. Only older European saws are able to use them as they were made pre-directive. You have to either find one of those, get one of the few old industrial iron American sliding tablesaws made, or get one of the typically smaller Asian semi-clones of the European sliding tablesaws to use a dado stack. Most of the full-sized Asian sliders can't even handle a dado stack as they are too closely based on the current European models.

My tablesaw only has a 24 inch fence. I don’t have a 48 or 52 inch fence.

I have a cabinet saw with the long (52 inch) rip fence rails. Technically I could cut a dado anywhere in a 9' 8" long piece of stock, but you still run into the issue that it is cumbersome to push a long piece of stock widthwise across a cabinet saw. Anything longer than about 3-4 feet wide is cumbersome to push across a cabinet saw.

I do have a 5 hp motor and Max capacity of 18 inch blade. I do have a 16 inch dado stack that will trench 1 1/8. To use it, I will have to build a dado stack arbor.

A 16" dado stack? Wow! Largest dado stack I've seen was a Popular Tools 14" unit that had a price tag of $650. I run a 12" Freud stack dado on my DeWalt GE and that is a pretty big dado stack, although reasonably sized for a 7 1/2 hp saw designed for 16" to 20" blades.

Have guys put a dado head on their sliding chopsaw?

SCMSes typically cannot handle anything except a single blade as their arbors are too short.

[Jeff Duncan]

Used a 10" Craftsman for years and used it daily. Then last time I moved shops I picked up a 16" DeWalt to get around the 10" saws limitations. With a sharp blade and 7-1/2hp spinning it she cuts through thick stock like butter. I bring in everything rough and sometimes the lengths and thicknesses are too big for anything else. I have a 14" jump saw, but that only gets me to about 9-10" wide or so. Two weeks ago was building a project that required milling down 16/4 thick sapele, 11" wide and 12' long..... not getting that on my slider! The DeWalt cut through it no problem and was a joy to use on stock that large.

I think they're great tools, but also believe to each their own. If you don't like a machine then I won't be the one to tell you why you should. Stick with what your comfortable with and enjoy the tools you have

good luck,
JeffD

[jack forsberg]

Europeans banned dado stacks under one of their "health and safety directives," and thus newer European saws were made so they can only accommodate a single blade. Only older European saws are able to use them as they were made pre-directive. You have to either find one of those, get one of the few old industrial iron American sliding tablesaws made, or get one of the typically smaller Asian semi-clones of the European sliding tablesaws to use a dado stack. Most of the full-sized Asian sliders can't even handle a dado stack as they are too closely based on the current European models.



I have a cabinet saw with the long (52 inch) rip fence rails. Technically I could cut a dado anywhere in a 9' 8" long piece of stock, but you still run into the issue that it is cumbersome to push a long piece of stock widthwise across a cabinet saw. Anything longer than about 3-4 feet wide is cumbersome to push across a cabinet saw.



A 16" dado stack? Wow! Largest dado stack I've seen was a Popular Tools 14" unit that had a price tag of $650. I run a 12" Freud stack dado on my DeWalt GE and that is a pretty big dado stack, although reasonably sized for a 7 1/2 hp saw designed for 16" to 20" blades.



SCMSes typically cannot handle anything except a single blade as their arbors are too short.

Dado stacks on tablesaws Are not against regulations As long as proper guarding is in place. it’s just that Europeans find that dodoing on the table saw is the realm of amateurs. Dadoes and rebates are done on the spindle molder far safer machine and anything way in the center with the router.
And here I could have given Matt the 18 inch stack but he insisted on the 16” stack . What he didn’t tell you is that the machine is a direct drive motor and I has to clear of the house. But I needed two dado stack 2 inches wide to blow ymy hair back like a rockstar.

[Doug Dawson]

Two weeks ago was building a project that required milling down 16/4 thick sapele, 11" wide and 12' long..... not getting that on my slider!

For something like that, which probably doesn't come up very often, a good hand saw would IMO be the preferred option.

I like my DeWalt 780 SCMS for the "small" stuff.

[Phillip Gregory]

Dado stacks on tablesaws Are not against regulations As long as proper guarding is in place. it’s just that Europeans find that dodoing on the table saw is the realm of amateurs. Dadoes and rebates are done on the spindle molder far safer machine and anything way in the center with the router.

I remember reading it was illegal to use a dado blade on a table saw in the EU. I did some looking again and apparently it is in fact true, due to both the mandatory blade brakes often not being able to stop a heavy dado stack within the mandated 8 seconds and also that the guards typically have to be removed to perform a dado cut and removing the guards is against regulations. The Europeans have also made non-chip-limited tooling illegal to use in a manual feed situation as well. Dado stacks with the "European-style" chip limiters in the gullet do exist, although most sold in the US are not and would be illegal to use in the EU unless you are using a feeder.

Like you, I use my shaper for rabbets and grooving as it yields a much better quality cut. It is also easier to guard the cutterhead and dust collection is much better than using a dado stack on a table saw.

And here I could have given Matt the 18 inch stack but he insisted on the 16” stack . What he didn’t tell you is that the machine is a direct drive motor and I has to clear of the house. But I needed two dado stack 2 inches wide to blow ymy hair back like a rockstar.

You can run into that issue with a radial arm saw as well since essentially all of those are direct drive. The smallest dado blade my GE can run is a 10" blade as an 8" blade barely extends below the bottom of the motor housing. The 10 hp version of my saw with a larger motor housing size requires at least a 12" dado stack.

[Matt Mattingley]

I remember reading it was illegal to use a dado blade on a table saw in the EU. I did some looking again and apparently it is in fact true, due to both the mandatory blade brakes often not being able to stop a heavy dado stack within the mandated 8 seconds and also that the guards typically have to be removed to perform a dado cut and removing the guards is against regulations. The Europeans have also made non-chip-limited tooling illegal to use in a manual feed situation as well. Dado stacks with the "European-style" chip limiters in the gullet do exist, although most sold in the US are not and would be illegal to use in the EU unless you are using a feeder.

Like you, I use my shaper for rabbets and grooving as it yields a much better quality cut. It is also easier to guard the cutterhead and dust collection is much better than using a dado stack on a table saw.



You can run into that issue with a radial arm saw as well since essentially all of those are direct drive. The smallest dado blade my GE can run is a 10" blade as an 8" blade barely extends below the bottom of the motor housing. The 10 hp version of my saw with a larger motor housing size requires at least a 12" dado stack.

just curious for the European woodworkers if this is true. I thought 10 seconds stop Time was mandatory for any machine. I know European table saws are generally not set up for provisions for dado stacks. Europeans think table saws are not shapers. I wonder if the extra inertia exceeds the stop time. I’m still curious the stop time requirement in Europe?

Yes, Jack did give me a 16 inch dado stack. It was custom-made by “FS tool” for 18 inch machine. I’m going to try to stop this under eight seconds on a direct drive PK. It will be used in slider clamped position. Is a 16 inch dado head 1 1/4” wide scary???

Almost nothing scares me anymore. The only thing that scares me is stupidity!

[Warren Lake]

had a sears at the beginning and did a few things with it. Then mostly for cross cutting rough lumber. It was pretty lousey for that, under powered and it kicked out a heat sensor reset thing then have to wait for some period of time and press the button for it to come to life again, My skill saw has more balls than that saw had.

this post is on the other radial arm saw thread, didnt realize there was a second one and site doesnt work right for me so cant erase it,. Jim if you see it will you remove my post, I can only see it logged off, l0gged on my post is gone so cant edit or remove it.

[jack forsberg]

just curious for the European woodworkers if this is true. I thought 10 seconds stop Time was mandatory for any machine. I know European table saws are generally not set up for provisions for dado stacks. Europeans think table saws are not shapers. I wonder if the extra inertia exceeds the stop time. I’m still curious the stop time requirement in Europe?

Yes, Jack did give me a 16 inch dado stack. It was custom-made by “FS tool” for 18 inch machine. I’m going to try to stop this under eight seconds on a direct drive PK. It will be used in slider clamped position. Is a 16 inch dado head 1 1/4” wide scary???

Almost nothing scares me anymore. The only thing that scares me is stupidity!

that's right 10 sec unless hand or foot braked . can be extended to the time it takes a machine to come up to speed . this is to reduce run down accidents . here is the full doc

http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/wis16.pdf

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regs on tooling PUWER 98

https://www.axminster.co.uk/media/do...g_machines.pdf

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i run the illegal tooling have a look



as said with proper guarding its not illegal . start/stop grooving is though .

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full doc

http://www.hse.gov.uk/woodworking/crosscut.htm

[jack forsberg]

just curious for the European woodworkers if this is true. I thought 10 seconds stop Time was mandatory for any machine. I know European table saws are generally not set up for provisions for dado stacks. Europeans think table saws are not shapers. I wonder if the extra inertia exceeds the stop time. I’m still curious the stop time requirement in Europe?

Yes, Jack did give me a 16 inch dado stack. It was custom-made by “FS tool” for 18 inch machine. I’m going to try to stop this under eight seconds on a direct drive PK. It will be used in slider clamped position. Is a 16 inch dado head 1 1/4” wide scary???

Almost nothing scares me anymore. The only thing that scares me is stupidity!

that's right 10 sec unless hand or foot braked . can be extended to the time it takes a machine to come up to speed . this is to reduce run down accidents . here is the full doc

http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/wis16.pdf

Capture 1.JPG

regs on tooling

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as said with proper guarding its not illegal . start/stop grooving is though .

regs regarding affective guarding

https://www.iso.org/obp/ui/#iso:std:...857:ed-1:v1:en


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full doc

http://www.hse.gov.uk/woodworking/crosscut.htm

[John K Jordan]

Your picture of the saw guard is very similar to what I always used on my RAS when ripping, grooving, or making molding, except I hand four springs, two on each side of the blade. Holding down the wood makes those operations perfectly safe. I can understand why some consider the RAS if they didn't use hold-downs.

JKJ

[jack forsberg]

Your picture of the saw guard is very similar to what I always used on my RAS when ripping, grooving, or making molding, except I hand four springs, two on each side of the blade. Holding down the wood makes those operations perfectly safe. I can understand why some consider the RAS if they didn't use hold-downs.

JKJ

john did you know that Wadkin had a riving knife for there saw in the 50s

[James Biddle]

I was surprised to see an SCM radial arm saw when looking through their online catalog the other day. I never hear about anyone buy new, just used.

[Larry Edgerton]

I have a newer Omga RM700 and it does not allow a dado stack so I copied the setup from a Minimax sc10 that allows use of a dado. Don't use it much any more as I bought a panel router, but it works.

[Jim Fuller]

I have a delta that was bought in 1950! I use it some, but I use it mainly for a specific task, such as wide boards, dados, and such. The only reason I don't use it any more is the miter saw is faster to set up and will cut thicker wood and has a better dust vent on it. You can do stuff on a radial arm saw you can't do on a miter/sliding miter saw.

[Joe Calhoon]

We have 2 radial arms in the shop. A older Dewalt 12” that gets used only for rough crosscut and breakdown of timber. This gets used a lot as every piece of wood we use gets cut to rough length and rough ripped to width before further processing.
In the last 30 years the 12” Dewalt has been in and out of the shop twice. We put in a 16” Dewalt for a while in hopes I could get it to cut square consistently but that did not work out and took up too much space. The 12” came back in for a while till we replaced it with a up cut saw in the hopes of having a consistent square cutting saw. It did cut square but soon found out it it was limited in the width it cut and we were having to get the skill saw out often. So it went out and the Dewalt back like a bad penny... We only have room for one crosscut line in the shop.

I had been looking for a Graule radial arm and finally came up with one. They are known for accuracy and safety. It is a great saw, positive in all adjustments, good dust collection and blade guarding and can cut 5 1/2” thick with a 14” blade.
the Dewalt has earned its keep and we put both saws in line and still use the Dewalt for rough cutting to save the blade on the Graule. We use the sliding saw though for most angle and square cross cuts that require precision. Most dadoing and grooving is done on the shaper. We have a 16 to 30mm adjustable groover that fits our sliding saw for cross dados and trenching.

In it’s day the radial was the go to saw, not so much any more. My uncles had a lumber yard and planing mill in the 50s, 60s and 70s. They used a big radial for both crosscut and ripping. My dad used a radial for both ripping and crosscutting in his construction business. I think it is rare to see one on a job site now.

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