Bump!!
--It's ironic that this thread ended with "ATF would come knocking for what?"
I can now answer that question: For Any Reason They Want.
Yesterday afternoon I answered the door like I do a dozen times day, only this time I was greeted by an AFT agent and his badge. Time to have a chat he says.
Now, reading backwards you'll find that this topic can get controversial. Also note my post on the first page, #11, where I brought up my conversation with Nathan at our local ATF office. And as it says, and as I told (I'll call him) Agent J, Nathan gave me his blessing to engrave guns as long as it stays on 'an occasional basis' and no one leaves any logged weapons here. There's a reason for that, which I'll get to shortly. But Agent J says different. He explains that I CANNOT engrave receivers without a gunsmithing license, period. BUT (remember these details, pop quiz at the end
) - it's perfectly fine for me to engrave barrels or slides. Because, he says, the ATF considers receivers- AR lowers, Remington 700's, etc- to be "the weapon", because they handle the ammo. Fancy that, since the last place to get the ammo is the barrel, which you can fire a bullet from with nothing more than a phillips screwdriver, yet it's nearly impossible to fire a bullet from a receiver. All they are is chunks of metal until they're attached to other parts. But I digress...
Now since I'm a stickler for details, and because frankly, if 2 people working for the same govt agency in the same building give me totally different reads on the rules which leads me to believe neither of them know what they're talking about-- I'm not afraid to search out actual laws, which I did.
Now, the first thing you get if you google 'do I have to be licensed if I engrave guns', is:
Now, notice the laws references- Title 18 United States Code sections 921(a) 11 and 21... Section 921 explains the defintions of terms used when dealing with firearms, explosives, etc... Once you get past chapter 9, it starts regarding what we're talking about. We're interested in chapter 11:
"engravers" are considered "repairers", this is our 'category'. NOW- notice the first word in the answer to the 'do engravers need a license'-- big fat YES. But-- pay special attention to "within the definition of a dealer", because this is important, and addressed in chapter 21! And subchapter (D) applies to US, which I'll highlight, AND, I'll REALLY highlight the really important part:"
Get that? The term of "dealer" SHALL NOT APPLY to those who "occasionally" repair (read: ENGRAVE!)... Now, do you suppose THIS is why Nathan gave me his approval? Fact is, gun engraving accounts for probably 3% of my income. That's pretty occasional...
So why does Agent J insist I must be licensed? Hey, I haven't a clue.
But from what found in my research, I DO know this much: Anything an ATF agent tells you is based SOLEY on HIS/HER opinion of the law. NOT the LAW, just their opinion of it! Know why I know that? I actually read the laws! And it seems that BOTH Nathan AND Agent J are more than likely wrong. Know who's been right in all this discussion?
Several actually, but it appears to me Gary has been right on the money. Guess he has a good teacher, seems his ATF agent knows his stuff. He must be one of the few agents who actually read this Department of Justice/ATF ruling:
https://www.atf.gov/file/55461/download
--It's a PDF copy of the actual ruling. Less than 3 pages and it explains who does and doesn't need certain licenses. It also explains exactly what the DOJ considers a firearm:
-- notice there's no distinction between different parts of the 'firearm', and that 'frame' and 'receiver' is INCLUDED, not singled out. Which I take to mean 'firearm' to include the whole gun and all parts thereof. I'm pretty sure most judges would too...
Finally, the last paragraph in the heading and of the ruling reads:
--pretty cut & dried there...
Pop quiz!
According to the ruling:
-- do I need a license to engrave a gun?
-- what parts of a gun are not a gun?
-- does that mean barrels and slides are okay to engrave without a license?
-- does this ruling supersede the 'occasional' reference?
-- Shouldn't ATF agents know all this??
Answers: yes, zero, NO, pretty sure and hell yes...
And FWIW, I think a lot of these laws are nonsense. But I also think the minute a judge reads this ruling, it's a done deal regardless of what I think.
Since I'm not about to put up with nonsense of getting licensed and all that that will entail, seems I'm about to have a few unhappy customers...
Let the controversy begin anew! ( or not!
)