A new "I'm about to buy my first real table saw" thread

[mreza Salav]

A small "good" slider (European brand) runs you around $4500 at least. You'll be still ripping like a cabinet saw on that, so the "safety" isn't really not much better than a regular cabinet saw, unless you only rip short (say shorter than 8') and use the sliding action instead of the fence.
If you want to buy a cabinet saw SS is the best choice IMO especially that you have a business. I'd not touch a Delta.

[william watts]

Why is dust collection a must?

There's a dust shroud around the lower 1/2 of the blade, connected to a 4in. hose that connects to a 4 in. port at the back of the saw. Dust blows out this port, lots of it, but not all, some remains in the hose, it will build up. Dust will blow out the of the shroud and be deposited on the workings of the saw. Including the safety cartridge, a little dust is ok according to the instruction book, but not lots. The dust that blows out the port will be deposited in a nice even coat thru out your shop. I learned this like I learn most things. I also learned you can use leaf blower to clean up.

I think a lot of saws in this class use the same system. They will blow dust like a hurricane, not like a job site saw.

[David Kumm]

I have to throw in the "look at used " statement. Table saws are one of the best deals out there. Used sliders can be within your budget, and really well built saws and a vfd can be had for 1500-2500. Delta 12-14, PM 72. I'm partial to short stroke cast iron saws and 3K buys any of them. Look up Jack's videos of his Wadkin PK. If nothing else you will learn about all the options out there. I just know I would not buy a non slider when sliders are so cheap. Dave

[John Lankers]

I have to throw in the "look at used " statement. Table saws are one of the best deals out there. Used sliders can be within your budget, and really well built saws and a vfd can be had for 1500-2500. Delta 12-14, PM 72. I'm partial to short stroke cast iron saws and 3K buys any of them. Look up Jack's videos of his Wadkin PK. If nothing else you will learn about all the options out there. I just know I would not buy a non slider when sliders are so cheap. Dave

I'm with you in the slider camp, I think the reason why many woodworkers shy away from sliders is they don't see the full potential. I wouldn't rip a 1/2" x 6" long dowel on a table saw, not even a SS, but on a slider with "Fritz and Franz" a piece of cake and your hands are nowhere near the blade and there are ways to secure a workpiece to the slider that are impossible on a table saw.

[Alan Hick]

The Saw Stop 3HP PCS is a great saw. I have one and couldn't be happier with it. And, if you decide down the road that you want a slider, SawStop released a new Crosscut Slider attachment that you can retrofit onto the saw. I've seen it in person and can say it's a rugged and beautifully machined accessory, currently selling for 999.00. Go to the SS website and watch their video if you're curious about it.

[Dennis Aspö]

I think a saw needs the following things:
-A riving knife that doesn't protrude above the blade or is encumbered with things like guards mounted on it
-A rip fence that is adjustable to a short length for ripping and cutting small part.

And the following things are my top two nice to haves:
-An overarm guard with dust collection
-A sliding table

Now you can live without a sliding table, see how matthias wandel solved that issue adequately for his saw, but I wouldn't want to.

[Mike Dowell]

I have to throw in the "look at used " statement. Table saws are one of the best deals out there. Used sliders can be within your budget, and really well built saws and a vfd can be had for 1500-2500. Delta 12-14, PM 72. I'm partial to short stroke cast iron saws and 3K buys any of them. Look up Jack's videos of his Wadkin PK. If nothing else you will learn about all the options out there. I just know I would not buy a non slider when sliders are so cheap. Dave

What's a "short stroke" saw?

[Mike Dowell]

Are there any good collections of videos using sliders? I searched all over youtube, and most of what I found were just company promo videos - you know, a 3 minute video with music in a the background while you watch a guy change all the settings on the saw - pointless.

I'd actually like to see a sliding table saw because I can't vision how to use one for anything other than cross cuts. To me, it just appears as a table saw with a built in cross cut sled. Say I had a 1x4 and I wanted to rip a 1/2" off of it. What does that procedure look like?

And this thing just looks like a robot or something! http://www.grizzly.com/products/10-S...ble-Saw/G0623X

[Alan Hick]

Are there any good collections of videos using sliders? I searched all over youtube, and most of what I found were just company promo videos - you know, a 3 minute video with music in a the background while you watch a guy change all the settings on the saw - pointless.

I'd actually like to see a sliding table saw because I can't vision how to use one for anything other than cross cuts. To me, it just appears as a table saw with a built in cross cut sled. Say I had a 1x4 and I wanted to rip a 1/2" off of it. What does that procedure look like?

And this thing just looks like a robot or something! http://www.grizzly.com/products/10-S...ble-Saw/G0623X

I haven't seen any "collections" of slider videos. And the sliders I'm personally familiar with would tend to be well outside of your stated price limit. But, you might consider the Hammer series, and Marius Hornberger just got a new Hammer this summer. He hasn't posted many videos with it yet but if you look him up on you tube and watch "My New Sliding Table Saw (Hammer K3 Basic)" you can se some action with his, and get a feel for space required. For a slider, it's quite compact and doesn't take up near the acreage that many of them do.

[William C Rogers]

Mike, I went down the same path as you. I did eventually buy a SS PCS. I also did not understand enough about sliders yo make the jump. I did contact Grizzly to see if there was someone within 3 hours of me that would be willing to let me see their slider in action. Unfortunately there was not. I would suggest you contact them to see if someone in your area might let you see theirs. You might get lucky to have someone to show you do you can make a decision if this is best suited for your business.

[James Zhu]

Are there any good collections of videos using sliders? I searched all over youtube, and most of what I found were just company promo videos - you know, a 3 minute video with music in a the background while you watch a guy change all the settings on the saw - pointless.

I'd actually like to see a sliding table saw because I can't vision how to use one for anything other than cross cuts. To me, it just appears as a table saw with a built in cross cut sled. Say I had a 1x4 and I wanted to rip a 1/2" off of it. What does that procedure look like?

And this thing just looks like a robot or something! http://www.grizzly.com/products/10-S...ble-Saw/G0623X

There are lots of euro slider videos. Here are some, the longest video is 1 hour 40 minutes. Some videos are in german, but you can get the ideas by just watching it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eV8A3XK3R0I Felder CF741S (office desk)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bS5x0MT_VM Hammer B3 winner Comfort (1)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvR5k99PMiE Hammer B3 winner Comfort (2)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgellk8U85w Hammer C3 31(1) (Rocking chair)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8WcPOd5g7w Hammer C3 31 (2)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8c9-BGJLeM Hammer K3 Basic
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMk8RceCCu4 Shaper tooling cabinet built using Felder K700S
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06PzXIqzQXM Felder dado cutter setup and use
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWDwGewwIos MiniMax CU300
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZUNdV5BUtXk building bed using Felder CF531
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqzVglze9Nk Fritz and Franz technique

http://www.solowoodworker.com/mm/slider.html (techniques for a slider)

[Robert Engel]

Sounds like you've made up your mind but I'll offer my 2 cents anyway.

I have a good friend who runs a large cabinet shop.
And I have worked with him on a project of mine.
I noticed they have 3 TS's: a PM, a Unisaw and a SS.

He told me the SS is a good saw, but costs them money because the blade stop activates at least 2-3 times a year and never for flesh hitting the blade. $90 every time it happens. Something to do with cutting laminate I think.

Keep this in mind. I will admit I'm of the "please don't protect me from myself" ideology (aka Kent but no quite as radical) and that's why I personally wouldn't buy it to keep me from losing a body part.

Like Kent said, I've got bandsaws and chop saws and RAS's and scrolls saws that can do the same thing.

Sorry, but to me, having a SS is like having a car with one airbag.
if it really does save you money on workmans comp, all I can say is you have to do the math, don't believe the SS line about that. If you've got an employee check all this out before you drop the loot.

Sorry again, but I'm of the school that says I f you have half a brain, don't get in a hurry, learn to read your stock, and don't make cuts you shouldn't make, save the $500.

Safety reviews and employee training is the best way to avoid injuries, not having ONE machine in your shop that will do it for you.


Im out.....

[Mike Henderson]

He told me the SS is a good saw, but costs them money because the blade stop activates at least 2-3 times a year and never for flesh hitting the blade. $90 every time it happens. Something to do with cutting laminate I think.

If the SS prevents someone from cutting off a body part, that $90 2-3 times per year is going to look like cheap insurance. Especially to the person who lost the body part.

And, yes, there are many dangerous tools in a woodworking shop. But just because you can't get flesh sensing on all of them is no reason to reject flesh sensing on the table saw.

Reminds me of the argument that people use to give about cigarette smoking. They would say that drinking causes many deaths and nothing is being done about that - so come back to them when you solve the drinking problem and they'll consider stopping smoking. It's the old "drain the oceans" argument.

Mike

[Ronald Blue]

Here is a slider for you. You will never want again.
http://delaware.craigslist.org/tls/5112584190.html

[John Lankers]

The SS is an excellent table saw and if I couldn't have a slider it would be a SawStop - but a sliding table attachment does not turn a table saw into a Sliding Table Saw, it's merely an attachment 10", 12", 14" away from the sawblade which defeats the purpose. The only way to take full advantage of a sliding table is to have it right against the sawblade. On a true slider you can secure a workpiece the size and shape of a Quarter to the table and make the cut without the use of jigs the same goes for thin rips like for edgebanding or any other rips and the list goes on and you don't need the rip fence for that either which eliminates the risk of a kickback.
About 15 years ago I was looking at the sliding table attachment DeWalt was offering for their 746 hybrid saw (I bought mine in the mid 90's) and I was close to pulling the trigger when I realized this shortcoming and opted for a Felder, it took me a few years to get there but I haven't regretted for 1 second .