Track Saws and Rails

[Will Blick]

I don't get it.... who? why? I treat everyone the same...is that wrong?

Sorry, correction.... I saw Ole at the bottom of the post, and mistaken he was the author...
I will correct my above post, my mistake.... (not so hard to admit being wrong)
Sorry to Ole...

[Ole Anderson]

>
Ole, I agree that perfect butt cuts on the rail would be the ultimate solution, in theory. Surprisingly this issue has not surfaced yet. Certainly Festool has the ability to make near perfect 90 deg. cuts on their rails. However, I think the weak link for this premise is .... the rails are very thin alum., therefore they are sensitive to slight movements from heat, physical stresses, dents n dings, etc. So while a perfect 90 deg cut might be a perfect solution right off the assembly line, I doubt it will be reliable over the life span of the rail. But this could easily explain why some people feel the straightness issue, is as a "non issue" while others have been occasionally effected by it. If you are fortunate, and your rails have perfect 90 deg butt cuts, well, those perfect butt joints serve as both a perfect alignment method, AND, insurance against loosing straightness. Of course, that might be the case today, but not in a few years.

Well, I guess I "surfaced" it. So if you are not relying on the butt joint for alignment, what are you relying on? The skinny steel spline connector? Give me a 7 1/2" wide butt joint any time. I can't imagine actually bending the flat aluminum track in the direction that would affect alignment. It would be like trying to bow a wide flat board standing on edge. Now if there were two well spaced spline connectors on the opposite sides of the rail, then you might have something that would approach the usefulness of the butt joint. As previously stated, a perfect 90 degree joint is not necessary as long as they are the same angle, and if they are cut on a production saw, it will be as near a CNC milled joint as you will get. Not having seen the other tracks up close to look at the machine marks, I don't know if other manufacturers actually mill the end cuts.

[Will Blick]

> So if you are not relying on the butt joint for alignment, what are you relying on?

A straight edge, that was the gist of this thread....the steel spline connectors are the holding method. Agreed the butt joint itself would be ideal, if consistent, reliable and repeatable over the production years.... My guess is, the thinness of the rails will always prevent the butt joint from being as reliable as a straight edge.
I like the concept of an straight edge connector (which remains affixed) on the non cutting rail edge.

> As previously stated, a perfect 90 degree joint is not necessary as long as they are the same angle, and if they are cut on a production saw

If you cut a 89 deg angle, then the mating rail would need to be 91 deg. Somehow u must end up with 180 deg, so perfect 90's are the only hope for butt joint alignment between all rails. I think u are referring to rails that are cut and "those specific ends" are re joined, of course they will always be 180 deg. I think this is where you were going with this thought? Anyway, these rails need to join with "any" rail, any vintage year, etc. Or maybe I am not following your concept?

[John A langley]

Will. I wasn't criticizing your woodworking abilities but what year did you win the national championship in debate?

[Will Blick]

I guess u just awarded it to me! If so, then 6/11/13 :-)

Hey, don't discount your own skill-set John, this post was an excellent "deflection", :-)

[John A langley]

I'm glad you have a sense of humor Will.....and I do too. You mentioned that you are past 50. I'm pushing 71 and still love working.

[Will Blick]

as they say John, gotta roll with the punches, huh....
laughter really is our best medicine :-)
Impressive at 71 to be active in ww... prob. a mix of good genes, and / or clean living. Kudos to you.
Seems my mind wants to do ww forever, now if my mind could convince my body of the same :-)
guys like Sam Maloof amazed me all those years in his late 80's, wondering, how can his body still execute 8 hrs of shop time per day?? A legend in many ways...

[John A langley]

Will, it sure wasn't clean living - just dumb luck. Actually I'm in pretty good health considering.

[Ole Anderson]

> I think u are referring to rails that are cut and "those specific ends" are re joined, of course they will always be 180 deg. I think this is where you were going with this thought? Anyway, these rails need to join with "any" rail, any vintage year, etc. Or maybe I am not following your concept?

I am interested in my 2 rails always joining. I don't have a pile of rails, I figure, in 15 years my 2 rails will be vintage. If you are trying to match up a bunch of rails, all bets are off and you must rely in the bending strength of the spline to not deflect when you are sawing a large panel. In which case you had better align them with a Berrerly or a straight edge every time. If you have tracks that visually butt perfectly (new ones are likely to do that) and result in a straight cut, mark them as mates in case you go to a job site and your buddies have the same tracks. I work by myself in my home shop so that is not an issue, nor would it be for most of the folks reading this thread.

A properly aligned production saw will cut within a few thousandths of perpendicular across an 8" rail, multiply that by 7 and you might be out 20 or 30 thousandths, or 1/32" in 55 inches. As a test, butt your rails, after checking for nicks and protrusions, lock down the spline and check it with a straight edge and tell me how much off it is.

[Will Blick]

Ole, I think we all agree, a perfectly aligned saw can cut these rails to near perfect 90's... however, I am not sure such precision is implemented by Festool. Or possibly after the cut, the ends are effected by movement due to their thinness, maybe over time, maybe extreme temperatures? Whatever the reason, its been reported by many of us, that a flush rail butt joint "can sometimes" assure non-straight cut. I fully agree with you, perfect 90 butt joints would be ideal and solve BOTH the straighness issue, AND the "keep it straight" vulnerability.

But, the jury has spoken, and it's not the case for all rails sold.... regardless of the denial by those who do not experience such. Hence why a straight edge should be the final check for straightness, not a flush butt joint...that is all many of were suggesting.

I am not near my rails this week, so I can't get the exact measurements, I did all this R&D years ago. There was no reason to mark the rails, knowing which ones are perfect 90 and which are not, and whether that would change over time. I simply grab the straight edge and to be honest, I have so many rails now, I rarely join them. So for me, no big deal, I solved it.

Maybe Julie will get her new rails and report her findings since this was her thread....and now she too is a proud owner of a TS system... I can understand why some would not want to speak out, as the brand loyalist can often beat them into submission :-)
and once again, this comes from a Festool tool hog,
but who is diabetic, so avoids the Green Kool Aid. :-)

[Julie Moriarty]

I think we can let sleeping dogs life for now. I started this thread to see of there was a system out there that solved the issues I read about Festool's connectors. There might be but Bosch doesn't sell their TS in the US and Mafell is just a bit too pricey for me. Besides, it's kind of hard to part with that much money when you really don't have any reviews to go on.

I've learned a lot here and I appreciate the input. And I've resigned myself to going through the same steps every other Festool guide rail owner has to go through. Though I do sometimes wonder why Festool charges more for something that is no better than the less pricey competition.

BTW, the shipment is coming piecemeal. Two days ago I got the guide rail accessory kit. Yesterday one rail came. Today the rest is supposed to arrive. FWIW, I did check the squareness of the rail end using both Festool's angle unit and a Starrett square. Both measured the edge to be about 1/3 degree off on either end. And both ends were canted in, towards the cutting edge. So, if you butted enough end-to-end, they would eventually form a circle.

I also checked the connectors and there's some slop side-to-side. Maybe they were designed that way to allow for alignment against a straight edge. Whatever the case, I know I have to check squareness and straightness before making any cut when using joined rails or when using the angle unit (I found some error there too.)

[michael flay]

I think we can let sleeping dogs life for now. I started this thread to see of there was a system out there that solved the issues I read about Festool's connectors. There might be but Bosch doesn't sell their TS in the US and Mafell is just a bit too pricey for me. Besides, it's kind of hard to part with that much money when you really don't have any reviews to go on.

I've learned a lot here and I appreciate the input. And I've resigned myself to going through the same steps every other Festool guide rail owner has to go through. Though I do sometimes wonder why Festool charges more for something that is no better than the less pricey competition.

BTW, the shipment is coming piecemeal. Two days ago I got the guide rail accessory kit. Yesterday one rail came. Today the rest is supposed to arrive. FWIW, I did check the squareness of the rail end using both Festool's angle unit and a Starrett square. Both measured the edge to be about 1/3 degree off on either end. And both ends were canted in, towards the cutting edge. So, if you butted enough end-to-end, they would eventually form a circle.

I also checked the connectors and there's some slop side-to-side. Maybe they were designed that way to allow for alignment against a straight edge. Whatever the case, I know I have to check squareness and straightness before making any cut when using joined rails or when using the angle unit (I found some error there too.)

Just curious as to why you didn't just get one long rail, since you are just using this at home?

[Julie Moriarty]

Just curious as to why you didn't just get one long rail, since you are just using this at home?

Cost. The TS 55 comes with a 55" rail that's good for shorter cuts, so I'd want that for sure. The additional 55" guide rail is $115. The 106" guide rail is $295. Plus, storage and handling of the 106" rail...??? Having the additional 55" is cheaper and makes storage and handling easier.

I joined the two rails yesterday, placed the saw & rails on the sheet I'll be cutting and immediately realized I can't use the Festool rail clamps. The table I'm cutting on is longer than the sheet I'm cutting. Hopefully some squeeze clamps and the rubber grips on the rails will do the trick. I'll make it work.

[Matt Meiser]

You probably don't need the clamps at all unless its really slick material. I don't even always use them on prefinished maple.

[Julie Moriarty]

You probably don't need the clamps at all unless its really slick material. I don't even always use them on prefinished maple.

Thanks Matt. I noticed the rubber grips seem to hold pretty well. I'm guessing as long as I don't apply side-to-side pressure, the rails should stay put.