Recommendations for Next Tool

[Paul Shaffer]

Metal working... Tried a little in my youth, fixing antique cars with my dad. Not exactly the same thing as you are suggesting, but not really something I remember enjoying as much as woodworking. Funny how an impression from 20-30 years ago still affects your decisions today. But I like the idea, it would certainly be nice for jigs and also, metal (by and large) doesn't move after you shape it (unlike wood).

The G0458 looks to have a blower and chip bag from the factory for dust collection, so I figured for now, attaching a shopvac should be sufficient to let it run appropriately, even if it makes a fair bit of airborne dust and necessitates a respirator. Experience with the G0458 to the contrary would definitely be appreciated. Also, does the G0458 have table locks to make sure successive boards are all processed to the same thickness? Has anyone attached a Wixey DRO to the G0458? I found one post on here, but no details on difficulty of the retro-fit. And its not just a few sticks, its over 140 rails and stiles and 35 panels, so that is a lot of hand sanding. Not to mention my planer does not have a head-lock, so thicknesses vary from board to board and thus the cope and stick joinery becomes an adventure.

Clamps are a great suggestion, and one I will probably take. I have a fair number of pipe clamps and a set of 4 Jorgensen parallel jaw clamps, but more of each would definitely be handy. Smaller clamps I also have a fair number, but as they say, you can never have too many. That's a great idea I hadn't thought of. Thanks.

[Jim Foster]

Drum Sander. I can attest to the fact they do not work without dust collection, all you make is a mess. I made a good bit of frame and panel paneled trim and the drum sander was a godsend. I can imagine for a set of kitchen cabinets, it will help a lot getting consistent panels and stile and rail boards. This does not eliminate the need for a planer and jointer on the front-end, or hand sanding by hand or ROS on the back-end.

To start DC, maybe you can find an older movable Delta or something on Craigslist like you mentioned.

A good block plane is very helpful.

Also, for the cabinets your making, depending on how you are putting them together, a pocket hole jig or biscuit jointer may be tools that will help on this project. Also, do you have a good dado blade. Most suck (IMO), and a good one may be a good acquisition for this project

[John Bailey]

I have the Grizzly 1 hp canister model. It's been one of my best purchases. http://www.grizzly.com/products/1HP-...llector/G0583Z. I have a small shop and needed something that I could move around. Since my shop is a one man, one machine at a time shop, I didn't need anything more powerful. It has really kept the dust down. I think this with a decent air filtration unit hanging from the ceiling is a great way to go.

There are two problems with this unit. First the casters are very cheap and need to be replaced, although I've yet to do it, so maybe it's not that bad. Second, the unit will not work with a planer because there is a cross bar in the unit to keep out large objects. The long strands that come out of the planer with any board 4"s or more get caught up on the cross bar and quickly clog up the hose. I, simply, direct the shavings into a trash can. I'm sure i miss some dust, but a planer doesn't make as much fine dust as other tools. The unit is great with dust and would work well with a sander.

[Paul Shaffer]

Ok, I have located a few used Delta 1hp on CL. If they won't cut it, perhaps I will buy the HF "2 HP" model. Either way, from reading Bill's website, I will be throwing away the bag and adding a Wynn filter. I bought a new ROS (Bosch) that I can attach to my shopvac for this project.

I have a "decent" pre-war Stanley 60 1/2 adjustable mouth block plane. It works, but is a little finicky on depth adjustments.

The cabinet carcasses are being CNC machined. I just can't handle 10+ sheets of plywood in my shop and I know the pieces I get from the CNC will be square and dado's perfect. (Even with the CNC cost, the savings they get for wholesale PF-maple ply nearly makes it a wash). I definitely have a good dado stack on the wishlist when I come across a need for it.

[Kent A Bathurst]

........ I am taking this said stock to a lumberyard that has a 30" surfacing planer and separate thickness to get it close to final thickness

I don't know what species you are using, but.............

From my personal book of Lessons Learned: Along with your panels, take an extra representative example - width more important than the actual length, IMO. Have that run thru the surfacing planer......inspect it.....run thru thickness planer......inspect it. Then commit to whatever you decide on the panels.

There is the potential for some breathtaking tearout, depending on the equipment, knife sharpness, care in inspecting the grain direction and proper orientation thru the equipment, and your species..

Drum Sander. I can attest to the fact they do not work without dust collection....

Well said, Jim.

That is true of planers and jointers as well. If you can't pull the waste stream, you can't run the equipment effectively. An extreme example:

One of my company's [well, the company I work for] manufacturing plants has a tremendous business opportunity that requires a moderate speed [150 - 200 LFPM] 5 or 6-head molder. The numbers don't pencil out to justify a 9-head 300 - 400 LFPM molder.

They asked me "how much for a solid used molder and the infeed/outfeed material handling equipment?"

Me: "Wrong question. The correct question is 'How much will it cost to upgrade the dust system to handle the waste stream, so we can even consider the molder? The answer to which is "$50 grand minimum, more likely $75K+.' "

Audible "GULP"

[Stew Hagerty]

Ok, here is my humble opinion... i too am in agarage workshop and have similar equipment, sotake from my advice what you want.
First, as far as dudt collection goes, you can get a HF 2hp unit, put on a Wynn filter, and add a trash can cyclone for a fraction of these other units and still have a very good system. It can also be dismounted and the various components mounted an the wall or elsewhere.
Second, a couple others have mentioned this as well,,, Hand tools. If you have a couple of nice planes (and a way to keep them sharp) you would have no need for the drum sander. I started picking upa few vintage planes here and there and after some cleaning & tuning found them truely wonderful to use. I you want new, I would suggest the Veritas Bevel Up line. Of course you can'tgo wrong with Lie Nielsen either.
Someone also mentioned a workbench. If you don't have a good solid one with real vises and dog holes I would strongly recommend that be a high priority. Even if it is a wall mounted fold-down model.

[Cary Falk]

The G0458 looks to have a blower and chip bag from the factory for dust collection, so I figured for now, attaching a shopvac should be sufficient to let it run appropriately, even if it makes a fair bit of airborne dust and necessitates a respirator. Experience with the G0458 to the contrary would definitely be appreciated. Also, does the G0458 have table locks to make sure successive boards are all processed to the same thickness? Has anyone attached a Wixey DRO to the G0458? I found one post on here, but no details on difficulty of the retro-fit. And its not just a few sticks, its over 140 rails and stiles and 35 panels, so that is a lot of hand sanding. Not to mention my planer does not have a head-lock, so thicknesses vary from board to board and thus the cope and stick joinery becomes an adventure.

The G0458 does not have table locks. It has a chain tensoner that can be adjusted to resist the table movement. On a drum sander you are not taking a large chunk off so the table shouldn't be moving. I am guessing the bag it comes is 30 um or greater which is not good. I have always had mine hooked to a dust collector.

[Paul Shaffer]

Thanks for all the suggestions. It happened that a Grizzly 18" open ended drum sander showed up on CL the other day and I was able to get it for a pretty good price. It amazes me that more people aren't killed by their machines. The pressure plates in the drum sander were horribly misaligned and one was missing the set screw all together. Its amazing that the wood didn't shoot back out the front of the sander. Also, the set screw on the motor pulley was loose and when I was tensioning the belt (it was crazy loose), it almost fell off in my hand. If that had come off at 3450 rpm... bad news. Anyway, I am in the process of aligning, cleaning, lubing and learning how to not burn the sanding belts. It works very well, but I still have some more fettering to do.

Ordered more from Grizzly along with their small ceiling air cleaner. The belt sander works fine with just my shopvac/dust deputy attached, but I can see dust escaping, so I am on the CL prowl for a dust collector. If one doesn't show up soon, I will go the HF/Wynn Cartridge/Thien baffle route. Total for air cleaner, drum sander and HF dust collector will be right at or less then the 1k I was aiming for, so I am very happy. After the kitchen is built, the next priority is to build the apron on my bench and get decent vises and work on my hand tool techniques for the period furniture.

Thanks again for the suggestions.

[Cary Falk]

I am sure you will get your money's worth out of it. I got mine used also and it has more then paid for itself.

[Rod Sheridan]

Ok, so the consensus is that I should get a real dust collector. Its just hard for me to drop $800 on something that takes a fair bit of real estate and doesn't "do" anything. I know its necessary, its just in my head. .

Cheers.

Except prolong your life...........LOL

Paul, you've hit the nail on the head, dust collection doesn't "make" anything in a shop, except make the shop much more enjoyable and safer to work in.

I had the same decision process befor purchasing my Oneida cyclone, however my wife stepped in and told me to smarten up and get a good dust collector. Of course she's also the person that told me I needed to get rid of the General cabinet saw when she saw the Saw Stop at a show..........Rod.

[Paul Shaffer]

Alright, now for dust collectors. From my reading, the key is CFM and the filtration. You want filtration of sub-micron particles, which means canisters, not bags. Everything else (cyclones, baffles, trashcans) just keep the filters running efficiently longer, correct? Now the CFM is where I get confused because many of my tools only have 2.5 inch ports, so I am not going to pull really high CFM's (600+) no matter how big the motor/impeller are, right? So, given that I am going to have to choke down diameter (and increase the static pressure), how big a motor/impeller do I really need? It will be hooked up to one tool at a time with short (<6') of hose. All the stuff on Bill Pentz's web site seems geared towards professional tools (4" ports that he opens up even more) and ducted systems, but I did find this quote:
For those who move a dust collector from machine to machine they can get buy with a good quality 1.5 hp dust collector that turns at least an 11" impeller.
The HF seems to have a 9-10" impeller, so it might not move air...

I am really in the weeds here, so real world experience with similar shops would be greatly appreciated.

[Julie Moriarty]

dust collector - real one with decent filter. BEFORE a drum sander.

Totally agree here. And make it a cyclone if you can. Good dust collection makes the workshop a better place to be and keeps you a healthier person.

[Julie Moriarty]

Ok, so the consensus is that I should get a real dust collector. Its just hard for me to drop $800 on something that takes a fair bit of real estate and doesn't "do" anything. I know its necessary, its just in my head.

Amazon has a used DELTA 50-850 1-1/2-Horsepower 1200 CFM Vertical Bag Dust Collector, 115-Volt 1-Phase for $410.91. You can probably do better than that if you do some searching. Your lungs will love you long time.



I've had dust collection for around 20 years and know without it I would have had to retire from woodworking. I'd probably be connected to an oxygen mask by now without it. Here's mine:

I just built the cyclone topper about a year ago and it works awesome!

[Julie Moriarty]

For your dust collection, if you put the DC in a stationery position, you can exhaust the dust that normally would be caught by the filter to the outside. I've been running that way for years. No filter cleanings, no filter changes, no clogged filters, no filter cost. And if your DC is efficient, all the exhaust dust will just dissipate outside. I just installed a 4" dryer vent outside and connected it to the exhaust end on the DC. Without the filter bag, the DC is much more powerful.

[Ole Anderson]

How about taking a trip to your local lumber mill and drop a grand there so you end up with a good stash of your favorite wood types? Spend that much and you will get a pretty good discount. And unless you upgrade your jointer, planer and dust collection, have them plane it to 13/16" for just a few bucks more. You won't believe how much time and how many trips to the curb with a bag filled with chips it will save you.