Thanks for all the replies. I shall never again attend a show that excludes the use of power tools like the one in Covington did. I see some classes in the upcoming shows centered on power tools.
[OP]
Contributor
Thanks for all the replies. I shall never again attend a show that excludes the use of power tools like the one in Covington did. I see some classes in the upcoming shows centered on power tools.
Contributor
Just come back from woodworking show. I am going every year for last 6-7 years. Probably it will be my last show (if it not improve drastically).It was four-five booths with not ww related stuff - basement repair, gutter cleaning, insulation, different glues, cutters and first time - booth with old ww tools but only junk quality.
Talk to Jesse from Felder group. Nice guy, good info - I may sell my SS with slider and will buy K3. I LOVE THIS SAW!!!
In general - poor attendance and representation from the companies. Three big stands with Makita, Bosch and DW, but when my friend asked if they have a slider saw - blunt faces and answer - we don't have it. My friend point to the box with it - O yes, I forget.
Festool stand with a few boxes, did not have sandpapers.
Classes - mostly for turners, I am not ( luckily) in this group of ww's.
One of the dealer was talking about improvement in ww show in the near future - company did change the owners and it may change a lot. Will see. I really would like to see improvement.
[OP]
Contributor
Did you happen to notice if Hammer was at that show? They sent an e-mail indicating they would participate in some of the shows but not others. They are not going to be in Indianapolis in two weeks but are attending in Kansas City in three weeks. I have tickets to both shows but might just skip the Indy show since Roland Johson will be at both shows. His class is the reason I plan to attend. My dad and I were very disappointed in the Woodworking in America show in Covington. They seem to have exclusively catered to the hand tool crowd. I keep looking for reasons to go to shows and keep hearing poor attendance claims and bad reports. Are we an aging population?Originally Posted by Eduard Nemirovsky
Just come back from woodworking show. I am going every year for last 6-7 years. Probably it will be my last show (if it not improve drastically).It was four-five booths with not ww related stuff - basement repair, gutter cleaning, insulation, different glues, cutters and first time - booth with old ww tools but only junk quality.
Talk to Jesse from Felder group. Nice guy, good info - I may sell my SS with slider and will buy K3. I LOVE THIS SAW!!!
In general - poor attendance and representation from the companies. Three big stands with Makita, Bosch and DW, but when my friend asked if they have a slider saw - blunt faces and answer - we don't have it. My friend point to the box with it - O yes, I forget.
Festool stand with a few boxes, did not have sandpapers.
Classes - mostly for turners, I am not ( luckily
One of the dealer was talking about improvement in ww show in the near future - company did change the owners and it may change a lot. Will see. I really would like to see improvement.
Contributor
yes, Felder group did show a Hammer BS, JP and Sliding saw K3.
Ed.
Jim hits the nail on the head and I have waved this flag for awhile. If we don't attend, the vendors see low turnout and in response do less themselves. Like demanding Wal-Mart pricing for everything, we are our own worst enemy in this. "The Woodworking Shows" size and interest will vary with the economy along with everything else in our society. The shows (at least 'The Woodoworking Shows') are not swap meets, nor are they bargain basements. The main purpose is not to offer great deals to attendees.
They do allow you to get your hands on products that interest you, or ones you may be just curious about, that you might not otherwise be able to see first hand. There are generally key staff available to ask those pesky questions that never seem to get answered in the glossy dog and pony ads and marketing fluff. On the left coast there are usually high ranking folks, presidents or owners of businesses, large and small, who make themselves available if you have things you want to discuss. If you think these folks don't want to talk to you, you're wrong. Your input is incredibly valuable to them.
During the lean years, the shows offer different opportunities than when things are "fat". In today's economy, if you are going with an "entertain me" expectation, I think you will be disappointed. I for one, try to go every year if only to get face to face with the folks I only see at those events. Have some fun.
"A hen is only an egg's way of making another egg".
– Samuel Butler
[OP]
Contributor
Glenn,
Different people attend for different reasons. Some like seeing things in person before purchasing, others like seeing demonstrations, and apparently some like talking to the corporate executives and technology representatives. Others do want show discounts, like the small ones typical of Bosch and Carter. The point is that if vendors don't cater enough to each of those groups, then attendance will fall. I attend to see stationary tools in person. Members of groups that don't encounter what they came to see will not return. It's simple economics and reinforcement schedules. The vendors can't afford to isolate any sub-group of woodworkers in this economy.
The Lie Neilson folks were dispensing with the rhetoric of paying "livable wages" at the last several shows ad nauseum. It was such a turn-off that many potential non-political folks, including myself, said something and then walked away. The owner's son-in-law actually used the WalMart example you just sited. They of course offered no show discount. In Covington they were situated directly next to the Lee Valley and Veritas booth. Being able to compare the two planes side-by-side was enlightening. Anyone there could see who was getting more business after realizing little difference existed between the quality of the two. Lee Valley offered a small discount and a tote bag.
The truth is that you go for your reasons and I go for mine. If my reasons (and others like me) aren't satisfied, we won't return. Will that affect the total show? If there are enough people like me, indeed it will. You'll see dwindling attendance and even fewer vendors, the cycle you discuss. I am the customer. It's not up to me to figure out what they need, it's up to them to deliver what we want.
Contributor
I went to the Woodworking in America show put on this past October by Popular Woodworking. There were not many vendors there, but the classes were what I was there for and I feel I got my money's worth.
Contributor
I have been to and may be going to the show in Springfield MA this coming weekend. It was OK last year but was better in the past.
Warning-blatant self promotion ahead. ;-)) If you want to go to a REAL woodworking show, please consider the NWA Showcase of Fine Woodworking in Saratoga Springs, NY at the end of March. This will be the 21st year (I believe) of one of the largest woodworking events in the Northeast and it is entirely put on by VOLUNTEERS! Go to www.woodworker.org and look for the Showcase icon for more info. You'll be glad you did.
Happy and Safe Turning, Don
Woodturners make the world go ROUND!
[OP]
Contributor
Don, that looks like quite the show. Some of the previous winners are better than I ever hope to aspire. It's a bit far from here to travel there, but good luck with the show.
Contributor
Rich, I hear what you are saying but have a different take on things. Accept or reject as you like. In my opinion, the biggest cause of demise in the woodworking shows (not necessarily this particular show, but across the board...) has been the growth of the internet and of blogs and forums like this.
I have been in this industry for over ten years and done pretty much every professional ww'ing show in the country at one point or another. If not all, at least the majority. The economy has been a factor, no doubt, but the shows started to tank even before the economy did its downturn. If you go back to the early 2000's, the internet was still a nacent thing and there were not very many shows. There were only a handful of discussion forums. Also, a lot of this machinere (the Euro stuff, anyway...) was still relatively new to the US. If you wanted to see one or even better, to get a deal on one, you HAD to go to a show and you HAD to wheel and deal there. There were less dealers at the time and nobody on the web to ask the usual questions in regards to feedback, quality, comparisons, etc.
The "demand" side was stronger and what happened was that the shows saw this as a green light to move forward and instead of one or two promotions, doing a only few shows a year, you had new promotions popping up and doing shows every few weeks and all over the place. Soon, customers started to adopt the mentality that they did not really need to make a buying decision at the show because there would just be another show with other deals in a few months, so they could just wait or go to the show and not spend any money. The "not spending any money" part is important because if the customers don't spend any money at the show, then we (the vendors) can't afford to come.
To put it into perspective, it would cost us about $10,000 to do the average hobby ww'ing show. By the time you added up booth costs, airfare, hotel, rental car, and charges to actually ship the machines and the booth to an expo center, that was the average cost. So, we needed to sell $10K just to break even. Not $10K gross, $10K PROFIT. In the early 2000's, there were plenty of shows I did that at. But, as the we got into the latter half of the decade, things changed like everyone in this thread is commenting about. Plenty of traffic in the booths, just a lot fewer buyers. What that meant is that many of the shows had their major vendors abandon them because they simply could not make any money at the shows, so what you ended up with was all hand tools or knick-knacks, like someone mentioned. Or, "peripheral" businesses from, other industries, who bought booth space. In other words, the role of woodworking shows in general has shifted from being a place where deals got made to a place, today, where information is gathered, for "future decisions".
There is nothing wrong with any of that. The market is dynamic and I look at it as some form of evolution. For the record, if anyone is thinking of going to just one woodworking show, I would highly encourage them to attend the AWFS this summer in Vegas or the IWF in Atlanta, next year. Those shows are what you expect.
Just my 2-cents as always,
Erik Loza
Minimax USA
[OP]
Contributor
We don't differ in opinion as this is one of the first questions I asked and thought might have fostered lower attendance.
The lack of vendors only portrays part of my disappointment, the lack of stationary tools and demonstrations is the other part. At the show in Convington all the classes I attended focused on hand tools, even the ones I had thought would not do so. The working smarter class instructor talked at length about being in harmony with the wood in posture. I had envisioned how to run a project most effectively when using tools, etc.
I don't know the number of woodworkers who use only hand tools, but it's not worth my time to go if that's all they discuss. I am not one of those who primarily use hand tools. Perhaps the Woodworking in America crowd only focus on that. Fair enough. Good luck to them.
I understand what you mean about the costs associated with the shows, they're expensive. It's enlightening to see that vendors expect the shows to be self-supportive. I had thought many companies would use woodworking shows to garner potential customers rather than prove profitable, much like advertising doesn't turn a profit.
We will see how the Kansas City show goes and the attendance factor. If I have time, the Indianapolis show would even be a consideration, weather dependent of course. There, Roland Johnson discusses how to tune and use power tools. Recognizing power tools exist will be a positive step forward from the Woodworking in America show.
Vegas in the summer. That will test my devotion to the hobby, but if it's the best and has a strong representation from the power tool folks, it's the show to attend. Thanks for that tidbit of information.
Contributor
Sure thing, Rich. For the first-timer, Vegas is the better show IMO. "Less" to see (or to be overwhelmed by...), so it is easier to focus on what you want to visit. Also, both AWFS and IWF offer classes and seminars for those in the interested. You don't necessarily need to be in the industry but you do need to sign up ahead of time. The one show I miss more than any are the TSI Expos. They were for the industry but on the scale of a (large-ish) hobby show. A victim of the economy. Here is an interesting read....
http://www.woodshopnews.com/news/new...y-disappearing
Best,
Erik Loza
Minimax USA
[OP]
Contributor
Erik,
I read where the shows I will be attending in Indianapolis and Kansas City were bought out by that old company. Apparently they aren't near the magnitude of the former shows. Thanks for the read.
Contributor
It really hits you when you do a big show, like Vegas, and one year, instead of being two large halls, it is a single hall that maybe is 2/3rds full. Things seem to be on the way back up, though. At least if my busines is any indicator. I heard (did not go) that last summer's Atlanta show was bigger than before, so that is a positive sign. Whether the hobby shows will reflect that, hard to say.
Erik Loza
Minimax USA
Member
I first went in 2003, just to get an idea of what they were like. In 2004, I went to buy something they were "demoing", and had to ask them to demo it, since they weren't. The next year, that vendor was no more then a Harbor Freight reseller, and closed after that and sold their tool displays to other vendors. You still see their marks on some stands. It hasn't been the same since (they were the largest vendor), and they moved the show one year, which was a disaster (lack of parking, they had to resod a freshly sodded location, after people parking on the grass). It is over crowded and a lot of people (myself two years ago), go when they need something small (Peachtree casters, that matched Woodcrafts, for less), but multiple of the woodworking stores, have events that same weekend (I tend to attend them instead).
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote