First Post, Need Brushing Lacquer Help

[Mitch Rankin]

I know that lacquer has been discussed a lot on this form and I have spent hours reading previous post, I am just not sure if I have all the answers yet.

I have spent the past 2 years working on a mahogany bed for my wife and I. The amount of effort I spent on ensuring every detail was as good as I could make it was huge, only to be disappointed with my lacquer finish. The finish consisted of an oil based Minwax stain, Zinsser Universal Sanding Sealer, followed by 320 grit sanding and three coats of Watco clear Semi-Gloss brushing lacquer applied with a foam brush (On samples, I found I got better results with the foam brush than with a bristle brush, maybe that was a mistake). The samples I made turned out great, but once I got to the large areas of the headboard, I couldn't keep a wet edge.

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From a distance it looks okay, but get a little closer and you can see the finish is not smooth at all, there are lumps and brush marks, and the solvent has blended and removed some of the coloring.

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After reading so many posts I now know that to get the finish I was wanting out of lacquer, I needed to spray the piece, or use thinner and retarder for the brushing. I wish I had spent more time on this forum before I started...

I am probably out of luck on the stain and coloring that was removed, but what can I do to smooth the finish out?

My fist idea is to sand with 320 then spray with Deft aerosol lacquer in hopes to get a more consistent finish.

My second idea is to sand with 320 then try to polish with Minwax paste wax or an automotive scratch remover/polishing compound.

Sorry for the long post and thanks for all the info I have already found on this site.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Mitch,

While I have frictioned several cans of Deft brushing lacquer on my turnings, I have only finished on piece of furniture with it.

I am hesitant to give you advice based on my limited experience but will follow this thread with interest.

I had problems with the Deft brushing lacquer but found thinning it helped remarkably.

Good luck. I can't wait to the what the experienced finishers recommend.

[Casey Gooding]

You can always sand out the imperfections in lacquer. Spraying would be the easiest way to get a good finish. Brushing lacquer already has retarder in it, so adding thinner won't necessarily help slow down drying. With the color problems, it sounds like you didn't wait long enough for the stain to cure. In my experience, Minwax can take a really long time to dry thoroughly. You could always apply another coat of shellac and then apply a glaze to add some more color. Then more shellac and lacquer topcoat.

[John Coloccia]

Not that I'm blaming the product because I know there are people that get fantastic results (at least I think there are), but I've heard more bad finish stories start with "I applied Minwax...." than just about anything else. Yes, it can take forever and a day to dry. At least several days in my experience. I have a feeling, though, that you waited at least this long given that this was a 2 year project and you were probably working on it on and off.

I see no mention of a conditioner of any kind, either a wash coat of shellac or some other conditioner. I may guess that some of the color variation you're seeing may have been the normal blotching you'd get without wood conditioner, and the top coat is just making it far more apparent. than it was before, and combined with your brush marks just makes the whole finish look not so great. I have a feeling that when you level the lacquer and get a proper top coat on there, it's not going to look so bad. Maybe a little "rustic", which actually adds to the piece in my opinion.

Before doing ANYTHING else to it, though, I suggest you decide what your practice area will be. The back of the headboard seems like a good place. The inside of the rails too. Whatever you plan to do, do it there first. Divide it up into sections so that you can try several different techniques and you'll know exactly how it works on the exact finish you already have applied.

I hope you post back with your eventual solution and final results. This is certainly nothing that can't be recovered from. You should see some of my disasters that I've saved!

[Angie Orfanedes]

First off, let me say that is some good looking work. That will be a beautiful bed when you get it finished. But probably at this point, you just want to get it finished.

I am no expert, but I have messed up my share of stuff with Minwax stain...so take all this with a grain of salt...

I have read of furniture restorers that can correct color problems just by mixing up some magic wiping glazes, but I am not one of those guys. I think you have two choices: one, you can wet sand the lacquer top coat (super fine grit maybe 800-1000?), and see if it smooths out enough for your liking. Wax and buff. It will still have the color issues, though. If you can live with the color issues, you are done.

If the color issues bug you, I would lightly sand all over - maybe 320 grit - try to wipe some stain on the color issue areas. Let it dry super well. Carefully pad some dewaxed shellac (2 pound cut - like Zinsser Seal Coat) over the recolored areas and let dry. I would then give it two overall coats of 2 pound cut shellac, padded on in a french polish sort of way, let dry for a week, wax, buff and declare it done.

But let us know your process...I still have a lot ro learn.

[John TenEyck]

That's some nice looking work you've done, so I can certainly understand your frustration that the finish is less than perfect. Hre are three options to consider.
1) Strip it all off and start over. This would be my last choice.
2) Sand down the imperfections in your topcoat until it's smooth. Apply a glaze to even out the color. You can add more or less in different areas, as required, even pull it off in areas with a dry brush. When that dries, spray on a coat of SealCoat Shellac. When that dries, scuff sand with 320 grit, then spray on more lacquer. Forget brushing on something that large. You could use a wiping varnish, but spraying is much faster.
3) Sand down as above, then spray a toner made from SealCoat shellac to which you add Transtint Dyes to even out the color. You can (and should) spray multiple coats, more where needed, less where not, to even out the color. Then spray your lacquer topcoats.

Obviously, with any option, mine or others, make samples first (big ones, as you've seen) with the whole process and adjust until you get what you want and have confidence you can do it on the bed. You are 90% done. Now for the hardest 10%. Good luck - it'll be worth it.

[Jamie Schmitz]

I am surprised that you brushed it but good for you in tyring to keep it to hand work. I am assuming you do not have the spray equipment or the space to pull it off. If you do though I would say this would be your best bet.After a sanding, if you could take this piece apart and lay the pieces flat you could really dump a heavily thinned out laquer coat and get it to reflow (melt previous coats and get them to lay down).
As fasr as the blotching from the brushing out the stain, probably the best bet would be to have an experienced painter shoot a toner coat. The only thing is it will have to go a bit darker. Actually this step can be done by hand also using gel satins in between laquer coats.Practice on the back side.

[Mark A Johnson]

Before you do much, get Flexners book on finishing would be time well spent. On your finish, I would get the semi gloss off. From there with that much area, you need to spray the finish. After 5 or 6 coats of gloss lacquer. Then comes "Finish the Finish" wet sand with 400 then 600, so it flat. This gets the imperfections out of the finish. From there you can use Rottenstone or automotive finishing compounds to get the amount of gloss you want.

[Mike Monroe]

Another option to consider, take it to an expert. Find a business that does refinishing and have them give you a price to make it right or at least they may offer suggestions on what to do.

I have a bed project in the works and applying a finish makes me the most nervous.

[Steve Schoene]

That is a gorgeous piece of woodwork. It needs a first class finish. I would strip it off--you can remove most of the lacquer with lacquer thinner and steel wool, but then you will need to use chemical stripper to remove as much of the stain as possible. Don't just try to sand it off, you need it out of the pores as much as possible before you start to refinish the wood.

Once the old finish is off you could use a more appropriate finishing schedule that will give you a look that would be superior to what you would find on all but the very most expensive furniture brands. Minwax, or any other stain in a can, will not figure in that schedule.