The American Auto Industry Story-Funny but sad and true

[Lee DeRaud]

One other thing. How long would the $14,415,914.00 (that the CEO of GM made in 2007) last if it was used to pay for the retirement plans? A year maybe 2 just guessing.

I don't know the exact number, but I expect it's measured in days or weeks, not years.

[Neal Clayton]

Thanks for that, Neal ... but can you shed some light on the comments earlier in this thread about retired auto workers losing things like medical cover if their previous employer goes bust?

in the case of medical coverage, if you leave your job or your job goes away, you can keep your medical coverage at the rate the employer was paying for 18 months (the plan is called COBRA), but you pay the full premium. after that you have to find your own.

The ford diesel engine is still made by Navistar, the new name for IH. Ford has used IH/Navistar for all of their pickup diesel engines from day one.

The EPA keeps forcing new regulations on diesel engines which is why the engines keep changing. Pretty much every diesel engine has lost MPG with the latest regs, but Ford seems to have fared worse than others.

the difference being the old 6.9s were an existing, proven unit, they were in production from the late 70s, ford took them as-is in the early 80s, and didn't feel the need to re-design them until what, 2004? the only thing that changed about those engines from the 70s models was a turbo and some injection refinements. the 7.3 was just a bigger 6.9.

the 6.0s and 6.4s were the first engines that ford was in on the design for from day one...and we see how that turned out. lawsuits, tens of millions in warranty claims, recalls galore, etc.

ironically, the difference between ford and GM in this respect is when the time came for the redesign to meet those EPA standards, ford attempted to emulate mercedes, albeit very badly. cummins doesn't suffer from the same issues that ford did, since they just skipped the BS and bought parts from bosch directly.

what was that about made in the usa? oh yeah, it's a joke, that's what.

[Karl Brogger]

the 6.0s and 6.4s were the first engines that ford was in on the design for from day one...and we see how that turned out. lawsuits, tens of millions in warranty claims, recalls galore, etc.

The new Ford diesels are definatly crap.
The new generation Chevy diesel is crap. So were the old ones for that matter
The new version of the Cummins in the Dodge is crap

Ford is the only one though that has had serious mechanical problems with the engine its self. The other problems that all three have had has been with the emissions stuff in the exhaust systems. Everything is failing. I would not buy a diesel pickup built after 2005. One of my friends just sold a early 90's Dodge pickup with a Cummins in it. I wish I would have known that he was selling it, when I need to replace my pickup I'd new pickup and swap the engine in. The 12V Cummins needs fuel going to it to run, thats it. Everything is mechanical.

You can't even get a decent gas engine anymore. GM, Ford, Dodge have all cancelled their big gassers. Sure you got 7mpg with Chev's 8.1L, but it always got that. Trailer, no trailer, uphill, downhill.

[Ron Dunn]

7mpg? Are we talking a semi-trailer?

7mpg in a family vehicle borders on immorality.

[Clifford Mescher]

Here's something else to think about: American automakers have spent the last thirty years moving all its factories out of the US , claiming they can't make money paying American wages.
Japanese car makers have spent the last thirty years building plants inside the US.
The last quarter's results: Toyota maked 4 billion in profits while Ford racked up 9 billion in losses. Ford folks are still scratching their heads, and collecting bonuses.
IF THIS WEREN'T SO TRUE IT MIGHT BE FUNNY

Will somebody tell me why we are bailing them out. Alot of americans don't want their cars and the ones they do sell, lose money. So what is the sense? Tell me they won't come back with their tin cups again.*sigh* Clifford

[Matt Meiser]

I doubt too many people buy a 1-ton dually diesel truck for a family vehicle. My next door neighbor has one (actually two, he didn't get rid of the old one when he got the new one, instead keeping it to use as a work truck around his horse ranch to replace his 20-some year old F150.) It gets used to pull a large 5th wheel horse trailer hundreds of miles per week.

Fuel economy in general has fallen on cars in the US from 10-15 years ago. The decline is a result of increased weight (due to conveniences consumers demanded and safety features consumers and the government demanded) and ever-tightening emissions regulations which reduce pollutants coming out the tailpipe but use more fuel. One of those items is the 100,000 mile tune up interval. Someone in the know told me it would have been cheaper to perform a 50,000 mile tuneup at no charge to the consumer than the engineering to meet the standard. Plus the consumer lost again in lower fuel economy. Take a look at the fuel economy of a Geo Metro. That car would never be allowed to be sold today. Take a look at the SmartCar. Only a couple MPG more for a car 1/2 the size of a Civic/Cobalt/Focus/etc.

With regard to diesels, they had to be redesigned. The EPA mandated it. Whether the designs were successful or not is another story. It was a huge deal for diesel engine manufacturers. Also, I asked someone in the know why Ford didn't bring the European diesels to the US. The answer is that a diesel made in Europe will not meet the US emissions requirements. This was about a year ago. He told me about the urea injection systems but he told me at the time the EPA wasn't allowing them because it relied on the consumer to do something to keep emissions up. Also, Ford had a 6-cylinder diesel under development for the F150, but canceled it when they first started restructuring early this decade.

BTW, when you compare fuel economy between the UK and US, make sure you are converting between imperial and US gallons. A friend and I did this a few months back and the results were rather surprising--in that the advertised MPGs were very similar for gas/petrol.

On another note, think about where the country would have been 67 years ago today without the domestic auto industry (and the domestic airplane industry, the domestic tool industry and a lot more domestic industries.) If, God forbid, we are in that situation again, are we going to have the transplants build tanks and planes?

[Jon Grider]

I doubt too many people buy a 1-ton dually diesel truck for a family vehicle. My next door neighbor has one (actually two, he didn't get rid of the old one when he got the new one, instead keeping it to use as a work truck around his horse ranch to replace his 20-some year old F150.) It gets used to pull a large 5th wheel horse trailer hundreds of miles per week.

Fuel economy in general has fallen on cars in the US from 10-15 years ago. The decline is a result of increased weight (due to conveniences consumers demanded and safety features consumers and the government demanded) and ever-tightening emissions regulations which reduce pollutants coming out the tailpipe but use more fuel. One of those items is the 100,000 mile tune up interval. Someone in the know told me it would have been cheaper to perform a 50,000 mile tuneup at no charge to the consumer than the engineering to meet the standard. Plus the consumer lost again in lower fuel economy. Take a look at the fuel economy of a Geo Metro. That car would never be allowed to be sold today. Take a look at the SmartCar. Only a couple MPG more for a car 1/2 the size of a Civic/Cobalt/Focus/etc.

With regard to diesels, they had to be redesigned. The EPA mandated it. Whether the designs were successful or not is another story. It was a huge deal for diesel engine manufacturers. Also, I asked someone in the know why Ford didn't bring the European diesels to the US. The answer is that a diesel made in Europe will not meet the US emissions requirements. This was about a year ago. He told me about the urea injection systems but he told me at the time the EPA wasn't allowing them because it relied on the consumer to do something to keep emissions up. Also, Ford had a 6-cylinder diesel under development for the F150, but canceled it when they first started restructuring early this decade.

BTW, when you compare fuel economy between the UK and US, make sure you are converting between imperial and US gallons. A friend and I did this a few months back and the results were rather surprising--in that the advertised MPGs were very similar for gas/petrol.

On another note, think about where the country would have been 67 years ago today without the domestic auto industry (and the domestic airplane industry, the domestic tool industry and a lot more domestic industries.) If, God forbid, we are in that situation again, are we going to have the transplants build tanks and planes?

Wouldn't that be ironic and tragic if the weapons we needed to fight an enemy were made by,gasp,the enemy? The concept of abandoning our manufacturing base scares the crud out of me.

[Justin Leiwig]

Wouldn't that be ironic and tragic if the weapons we needed to fight an enemy were made by,gasp,the enemy? The concept of abandoning our manufacturing base scares the crud out of me.

Isn't that how 85% of the world is? All using US or Russian weapons sometimes to fight with the US or Russians?

[Jim Barrett]

"The Japanese have a term for their auto assembly. It is Pakyoke or something to that effect and means idiot proof."

The term is "poka-yoke" which means "mistake proofing" in Japaneese. The idea of poka-yoke is to design the product and process so it is impossible to make mistakes or they are easily deteceted when mistakes do occur, i.e., your microwave won't start if the door is open.

The concept of foolproofing was first developed in the 1960s by Shigeo Shingo ,who worked for Toyota Motors in Japan.

Jim

[Justin Leiwig]

"The Japanese have a term for their auto assembly. It is Pakyoke or something to that effect and means idiot proof."

The term is "poka-yoke" which means "mistake proofing" in Japaneese. The idea of poka-yoke is to design the product and process so it is impossible to make mistakes or they are easily deteceted when mistakes do occur, i.e., your microwave won't start if the door is open.

The concept of foolproofing was first developed in the 1960s by Shigeo Shingo ,who worked for Toyota Motors in Japan.

Jim

Thanks for clearing that up. It's been quite a while since I studied it in my JIT production classes.

[Montgomery Scott]

Interesting article on the Ford production line in Brazil. Too bad the UAW stands in the way of progress.

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll...0407/0/special

[Jon Grider]

Isn't that how 85% of the world is? All using US or Russian weapons sometimes to fight with the US or Russians?

Prolly is, but if'n I'd had my druthers,I'd prefer the rest of the world being dependent on us for weapons rather than the other way around.

[Pat Germain]

Wouldn't that be ironic and tragic if the weapons we needed to fight an enemy were made by,gasp,the enemy? The concept of abandoning our manufacturing base scares the crud out of me.

The vast majority of defense manufacturing is done by companies like Lockheed, Northrop Grumman, Boeing and General dynamics.

American General manufactures the HUM-V. I don't think they're actually part of GM.

Although, the armored presidential limousine is a GM product...

I personally wanted to support the big three. Yet, they burned me. My last new car purchase was a Volkswagen. It's five years old and drives as good as it did new.

The Plymouth I bought in 1991 was shot and worthless after five years. The tranny went out twice in those five years.

Less than a year after leaving the dealer, I had to remove all the front brake components from my wife's '97 Jeep Cherokee and throw them away. Chrysler refused to acknowledge there was even a problem even though the calipers were completely frozen. The aftermarket brakes are still going strong to this day. (Pads have been replaced.) The gas gauge hasn't worked since 1998. Chrysler issued a recall, but my Cherokee was never included.

No more new US cars for me. No more. I'm patriotic but I won't support bad products and bad behavior.

Chevy has a new "hybrid" Impala. It gets a whole 2 MPG more than the non-hybrid. And it costs over $3,000 more. This is progress?

[Frank Hagan]

Chevy has a new "hybrid" Impala. It gets a whole 2 MPG more than the non-hybrid. And it costs over $3,000 more. This is progress?

I'm a hybrid fan (I own a Prius), but the larger hybrids just don't make sense to me. Unless the new EPA mileage did to them what it did to the Prius. they overcompensated for the old ratings (65 MPG) by changing the test, but it made it much worse. The new EPA test for the Prius has the mileage at about 45 MPG, but everyone I know who owns one is getting over 50 MPG in every day driving. My average has been over 50 MPG over the last 15 tank fulls.

So it might be that the bigger hybrids get 10% better mileage than the EPA estimates. But that still doesn't "pay" for a $3,000 adder. Electric cars and hybrids work with small, light commuter cars, not SUVs.

[Brian Kent]

Are you talking about the auto companies or Social Security?

Monkey see, monkey do.

Good one Lee!