Making ADA Signs

[Keith Outten]

Scott,

I think their wrong. Once we have a contract in place at CNU for a large commercial building it is a done deal. We can't change the specs, if we do the contractor has every right to change his quote. This applies to every aspect of a new building project.

Imagine that we wanted to replace an HVAC system or a boiler on a twenty year old building. We would stick to the original building specs, the current specs are starting to implement all the "Green" features and the price is going up considerably.

Consider that you get a call and a customer needs two signs for a thirty year old building, they want the new signs you make to match their existing signs. They have every right to stick with their original specifications. If the customer is adding a new wing to a Hospital lets say, then they must comply with the current codes. Here in Hampton Roads we have some very old buildings that have signs with no braille and no tactile text, you surely have some in Richmond which is almost as old as the City of Hampton

Larry,

Personally I don't have a preference concerning which code, heck I like them all the same I do have a preference when it comes to customer satisfaction though so if a customer wants new signs to match their existing signs and it is legal that is what I would provide.


We have a nuclear power plant in Virginia built in the early 1970's. The Nuclear Regulatory Commission has tried to get our Electrical company to update to the latest Boiler and Pressure Vessel Code but it ain't ever gonna happen. It would be crazy to change from the code you built anything to, you would forced to spend whatever it takes to comply with the current regulations.
.

[Larry Bratton]

Scott,

I think their wrong. Once we have a contract in place at CNU for a large commercial building it is a done deal. We can't change the specs, if we do the contractor has every right to change his quote. This applies to every aspect of a new building project.

Imagine that we wanted to replace an HVAC system or a boiler on a twenty year old building. We would stick to the original building specs, the current specs are starting to implement all the "Green" features and the price is going up considerably.

Consider that you get a call and a customer needs two signs for a thirty year old building, they want the new signs you make to match their existing signs. They have every right to stick with their original specifications. If the customer is adding a new wing to a Hospital lets say, then they must comply with the current codes. Here in Hampton Roads we have some very old buildings that have signs with no braille and no tactile text, you surely have some in Richmond which is almost as old as the City of Hampton

Larry,

Personally I don't have a preference concerning which code, heck I like them all the same I do have a preference when it comes to customer satisfaction though so if a customer wants new signs to match their existing signs and it is legal that is what I would provide.


We have a nuclear power plant in Virginia built in the early 1970's. The Nuclear Regulatory Commission has tried to get our Electrical company to update to the latest Boiler and Pressure Vessel Code but it ain't ever gonna happen. It would be crazy to change from the code you built anything to, you would forced to spend whatever it takes to comply with the current regulations.
.

Keith:
Me either. In all the years I worked on construction projects, I didn't consider my job to be a code policeman. I usually tried to follow what the architect had specified, and it usually worked out. However, if the architect made a mistake, and that happened more than once, then the GC usually did not hold me, as a sub, financially responsible for his error. I remember a recent instance where the architect drew the wrong size handicapped grab bars in HC bathrooms. I replaced them, but the GC paid me for them. I was not in the design business. Not to say, that if we caught an error, we wouldn't address it, we always did, but we didn't do stringent review. This goes to giving the customer what he needed to get inspections off and sell the building.

[Scott Shepherd]

Guys, I'm only the messenger. Pick up the phone and call the DOJ and see if they tell you something different than what they are telling me. I had a very specific conversation about 6 months ago with them and I specifically asked how to handle a situation where a building was 30 years old and they needed one sign replaced. I was told in no uncertain terms that there was no grandfather clause and that every single building in the USA fell under the ADA requirements no matter when they were built and in the case of a 30 year old building, if their signs were not ADA compliant, then they would need to change the signs. ADA is a law, and there is no grandfather clause in the law is what I was told.

I certainly encourage someone else to call them since I seem to be in opposition to everyone on this thread. I'm only going by what I'm told by the DOJ. I hope someone else will spent 10 minutes with them on the phone (ada.gov) and report their conversations back here as well. I don't have a lot of confidence that they have a consistent message.

[Andrew Jordan]

you've mentioned ADA a thousand times...what the heck is an ADA?

Andrew

[Angus Hines]

Well since I live with in 10 miles of said Nuclear Plant....Thanks for the warm fuzzie Keith.....

Scott,

We have a nuclear power plant in Virginia built in the early 1970's. The Nuclear Regulatory Commission has tried to get our Electrical company to update to the latest Boiler and Pressure Vessel Code but it ain't ever gonna happen. It would be crazy to change from the code you built anything to, you would forced to spend whatever it takes to comply with the current regulations.
.

[Larry Bratton]

Andrew:
ADA is short for Americans (with) Disabilities Act. It was passed into law back in George H. Bushes administration and has been changed several times since then. Signs made for buildings in public use must comply with the rules laid down by this or one is subject to a civil action by a disabled person not being afforded the accomodations provided for in the law. We, as makers of these type signs have to be aware of the rules and follow them to the letter, lest we also become liable.

[Keith Outten]

Angus,

I worked for Vepco at Surry during the Steam Generator Replacement project, the next time I see you I'll tell you some stories that will make you want to move

My point concerning making changes to an existing contract such as requiring the contractor to comply with code changes after the contract is signed is that it will often require a change in the scope of work and the contractors price. The Federal Government is very powerful but they aren't that powerful, if they tried to enforce such a rule every large project would stop. Customers couldn't budget for any projects since they would not have any idea how much they would cost.

The last power plant I worked on cost over 7 Billion dollars, imagine the Federal Government mandating code changes during such a large project and the impact it could have to the job costs. At CNU the new facilities we have been building over the last eight years have been in the 20 to 60 million dollar range. Even a small change to a project specification could be very costly. We don't change any contract documents after the contracts are signed.
.

[Andrew Jordan]

Thanks for letting me know, Larry! As a Canuck, I'd never heard of ADA signs before!

Andrew