Electric service application

["Jacob Robinson"]

I am goin to get new service put into my shop, instaed of back feeding it from the house, but on the aplication it wants to know my loads that I will be needing (pg. 4) I talked to a person from the company and she she said they can be generic numbers, but even stil I don;t know what to put


I have to put these down so that they make sure the service I want will cover what i want to run

I'm sure 200Amp service will be enough
and since I'll probably be using a wood or corn burner then I think I just need my lights and motor correct

so i'm planing on a 3hp cab saw and two string of fluorecnt lights down the 48'

can anyone give me some numbers on this? like I said it can be very generic

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi Jacob, is this for a commercial application or single person hobby shop?

If it's for your hobby shop, you wouldn't have anything larger than 5 HP, more likely 3HP.

A cyclone (3HP) and a piece of machinery (3HP) will be all that's running at any one time.

Now calculate your lighting load, add HVAC if you want air conditioning.

You said you will use a fuel fired stove to heat your shop, if that's OK with the local authorities you won't need electricity for heating loads.

If it's commercial, you're into a completely different application as you may have many machines running at the same time.

For a standard hobby shop, a 100 Ampere service would be adequate unless you have a large HVAC load........Regards, Rod

[Bob Slater]

I upgraded my shop to 200 amps and it is idling. Lights and the heater or AC are on at the same time...and one power tool.

["Jacob Robinson"]

it will be a hobby shop but I want the 200 amp service for plenty of any future upgrades

and maybe someday (distant distant future) it will become a small commercial shop

the utilities company considers any service that is not connected to a house to be commercial

technically it is considered Non-Residential

do you all agree 200 amp will be plenty if so what about 150 amp??

[Rollie Meyers]

it will be a hobby shop but I want the 200 amp service for plenty of any future upgrades

and maybe someday (distant distant future) it will become a small commercial shop

the utilities company considers any service that is not connected to a house to be commercial

technically it is considered Non-Residential

do you all agree 200 amp will be plenty if so what about 150 amp??

A 150 A panel is going to cost the same as a 200A, only diff. is the difference between the cable costs between 1/0 copper for 150A and 3/0 copper for 200A (You cant use the residental table 310.15(B)(6) 2005 NEC to size conductors)

[Brad Sperr]

You would use the tables in Article 220 of the NEC to calculate your lighting load. It's going to vary depending on your square footage and the application. I think you get your motor loads from the tables in Article 430. If you don't have a copy of the NEC, you can pull it up for free at nfpa.org. I'm also going to be upgrading my electrical service soon, so I'll have to fill out the same application. Good luck.

[Von Bickley]

When it comes to cost..... It is not going to cost you too much more to build the 200 amp service. Go ahead and do the 200 amp....

["Jacob Robinson"]

I'm finally getting around to filling this form out,

If I'm listing the motor of my tablesaw and its will be my largest load it asks if its a soft start or a "across the line start"

which one would be a grizzly 1023?

[Sonny Edmonds]

You will need to look at all and any equipment that may be running or starting in combination of any other. Not just a 3 HP table saw.
For example, in my shop I might be using my table saw, with the DC running, and the shop air filter, then the Air Compressor decides to cycle.
Respectively: 5 + 3.5 + .5 + 7 That's 16 HP potentially. I say potentially because not all of that connected HP is running at full load.
Why they want the HP is kind of a wonder to me, unless they want to shove you into some higher cost bracket.
200 Amps for your shop will be one heck of a lot of power.
I run my home shop on a 50 amp sub-panel from my 100 amp main panel.
I've installed 200 amp panels in commercial shops, and 3 phase in machine shops.
But geese, I'd never need that for my own shop.

[Rob Russell]

Before you commit yourself to a separate service for the shop, you might want to ask the power company what to expect for monthly service charges.

Instead of just paying for the additional watts you use from your residential service, you'll also be paying all of the basic monthly charges. Commercial rates are higher than residential rates (at least in my area, they are) and the power companies also use "peak demand" metering. They take the highest peak usage and your rate is based is that. You still pay by the kilowatt, but the rate per kw can fluctuate.

You might be surprised at how much more the separate service will cost you.

Assuming you have adequate juice in your residential service, I'd run from there. In the long run, it would probably be cheaper to upgrade your residential service to 320 amps (if you're at 200 now) than it would be to run a separate service to the shop.

Just something to consider.

[Scott Myers]

Rob is right. His suggestion is the cheaper way to go in the long run, provided the difference in cost from a 320A service compared to a 200A service isn't too much in your area. Jut might cost a few pennies and some inconvenience to get the new panel in the house.

[Ken Massingale]

Before you commit yourself to a separate service for the shop, you might want to ask the power company what to expect for monthly service charges.

Instead of just paying for the additional watts you use from your residential service, you'll also be paying all of the basic monthly charges. Commercial rates are higher than residential rates (at least in my area, they are) and the power companies also use "peak demand" metering. They take the highest peak usage and your rate is based is that. You still pay by the kilowatt, but the rate per kw can fluctuate.

You might be surprised at how much more the separate service will cost you.

Assuming you have adequate juice in your residential service, I'd run from there. In the long run, it would probably be cheaper to upgrade your residential service to 320 amps (if you're at 200 now) than it would be to run a separate service to the shop.

Just something to consider.

I ran into this Residential/Commercial thing when I requested 200 amp service for our new shop. The Co-Op asked if the service was for a detached structure and when I said it was, the dreaded Commercial service was mentioned.
Apparently the lady saw the 'Oh No' look on my face and chuckled. She explained that any service to a detached structure is listed as Commercial, but not necessarily subject to true commercial rates.
If the installation crew sees that the service is for a structure on the property of a residence, and single phase, not a stand alone business (which would probably be 3 phase), the rates are at or near residential rates.
Our minimum for the new service is $17/month. I don't recall how many Kwh that covers, but in the 2 months we've had the new service we haven't exceeded it.
This is being served by a Co-Op and is in S.C., so it will be different elsewhere.
Ken

[Scott Wigginton]

Why they want HP and not Amp per machine is beyond me. I recommend doing a worst load analysis like Sonny showed based on future tools & potential other items. If you ever expect to have someone else working alongside you on another machine, make sure to account for that. You can easily find yourself soaking up more than 100 amps just on your largest tool / DC / compressor and your constant load (lights/fridge/air filters). Of course if you don't expect to have all 5 HP tools, this could be overkill.

If one of the issues is that you only have 100 amp to spare from your home, and you only need 100 amp currently but want the option of upgrading as you acquire the big boys, you could run the 200 amp cable to your current panel but only use a 100 amp breaker. Once you could then putoff upgrading your home service until you actually need it, then all you need to do is swap the breakers.

Either way, I would suggest running cost numbers long term to see if it is worth the added monthly bills the utility company is gonna nail you for.

[Tom Veatch]

...If you don't have a copy of the NEC, you can pull it up for free at nfpa.org. ...

I didn't spend a lot of time looking, but the only access to the NEC I found on the site was as a "member benefit". Membership cost $150/yr.

[David G Baker]

Mike Holt's site has a lot of information, give it a look see.