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Thread: The Market ...... Not food

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
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    The Market ...... Not food

    I saw real negativity today.

    We have had plenty of panic - Today was different.

    Wake me up in 18 months!


    ':-(

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
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    Anaheim, California
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    6,089
    I feel your pain.

    That said, for a rather high percentage of people, economics is a political issue...and for most of the rest it's religious. Either way, a dangerous subject in this venue.
    Yoga class makes me feel like a total stud, mostly because I'm about as flexible as a 2x4.
    "Design"? Possibly. "Intelligent"? Sure doesn't look like it from this angle.
    We used to be hunter gatherers. Now we're shopper borrowers.
    The three most important words in the English language: "Front Towards Enemy".
    The world makes a lot more sense when you remember that Butthead was the smart one.
    You can never be too rich, too thin, or have too much ammo.

  3. #3
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    it's funny watching these things unfold (odd funny, not at someone else's expense funny).

    i'm old enough now that there have been two of these in my lifetime, and they're exactly the same. in the 80s it was michael milken and corrupt savings and loans peddling junk debt to doctors and lawyers as a high return risk free investment. this time it's hedge funds doing the exact same thing.

    there was a pretty good article here in our local paper with the current president/ceo of stephens investments, which is the largest investment house outside of wall street. he said his pop always told him that if you were on the hook for more than double your available cash and credit, you were playing with fire, don't be surprised when you get burned. and he said most other hedge funds these days were leveraged as much as 30 to 1.

    the milken story was bad, but the damage in those cases was pretty much contained to said unfortunate doctors and lawyers. this time it's managed to bring down a major insurance company and the mortgage market with it.

    what was that about history and being doomed to repeat it?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lewiston, Idaho
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    27,363
    I'm still in......

    I haven't sold one share........

    I haven't lost anything because of the above.......

    Greed and dishonesty.......Yup that will unsettle the market.
    Ken

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
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    Bucks County, Pennsylvania
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    No Politics

    My dad opened an investment account for me when I was 15 in 1974 -- with Kidder Peabody (long absorbed) - I only mention that as a time frame.

    I have been around it a while -- It was just a strange day ................


    Just waiting for the weekend.

  6. #6
    Join Date
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    Location
    Saint Helens, OR
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    2,463
    I've got twenty one years, ten months and 25 days until I can retire, assuming SS is still around.

    I take a pretty aggressive investment stance and take the long view. Too many investors fail to look past the next quarterly reports.

    Don't know if things will get better or worse, long term. Hope for the best, expect the worst. Pulling out anytime things look grim is not an ideal reaction.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Neal Clayton View Post
    it's funny watching these things unfold (odd funny, not at someone else's expense funny).

    i'm old enough now that there have been two of these in my lifetime, and they're exactly the same. in the 80s it was michael milken and corrupt savings and loans peddling junk debt to doctors and lawyers as a high return risk free investment. this time it's hedge funds doing the exact same thing.

    there was a pretty good article here in our local paper with the current president/ceo of stephens investments, which is the largest investment house outside of wall street. he said his pop always told him that if you were on the hook for more than double your available cash and credit, you were playing with fire, don't be surprised when you get burned. and he said most other hedge funds these days were leveraged as much as 30 to 1.

    the milken story was bad, but the damage in those cases was pretty much contained to said unfortunate doctors and lawyers. this time it's managed to bring down a major insurance company and the mortgage market with it.

    what was that about history and being doomed to repeat it?

    BINGO!
    The only sad thing about that is I'm old enough to 100 % understand your statement.

  8. #8
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    The week did not get any better!

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neal Clayton View Post
    it's funny watching these things unfold (odd funny, not at someone else's expense funny).

    i'm old enough now that there have been two of these in my lifetime, and they're exactly the same. in the 80s it was michael milken and corrupt savings and loans peddling junk debt to doctors and lawyers as a high return risk free investment. this time it's hedge funds doing the exact same thing.

    there was a pretty good article here in our local paper with the current president/ceo of stephens investments, which is the largest investment house outside of wall street. he said his pop always told him that if you were on the hook for more than double your available cash and credit, you were playing with fire, don't be surprised when you get burned. and he said most other hedge funds these days were leveraged as much as 30 to 1.

    the milken story was bad, but the damage in those cases was pretty much contained to said unfortunate doctors and lawyers. this time it's managed to bring down a major insurance company and the mortgage market with it.

    what was that about history and being doomed to repeat it?
    the BIG difference now, is we're waaaaay deeper in debt as a nation(and individually) making this a whole lot worse and potentially more disasterous. we're no longer a self-contained nation, nor are we self sufficient financially, which is very bad for monetary issues concerning Americans.
    Give an honest days work for an honest days pay

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butch Edwards View Post
    the BIG difference now, is we're waaaaay deeper in debt as a nation(and individually) making this a whole lot worse and potentially more disasterous. we're no longer a self-contained nation, nor are we self sufficient financially, which is very bad for monetary issues concerning Americans.
    yeah and our sacred cows have never faltered, but they are this time.

    no one trusts insurance after the AIG fallout. and no one trusts standard and poor's and moody's either. i see that there's a provision in the bailout for treasury to create a new asset insurance system and force the banks who need their help to participate in it. until that's established and working, i don't see this letting up.

  11. America has had a 30 year debt orgy. The hangover is going to be tough. As George Soros said on Moyers last night, "It's the end of an era".

  12. #12
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    Everybody needs to know that the length of the average bear market is about 9 months. Most bears have actually been quite short. Long bears have lasted about 3 years, but that hasn't happened in over 50 years. Short ones have lasted only a few months.
    This also all depends on whose definition of a bear market you use. Some people define a bear as a 10% drop in the DOW, which given the volatility we have today I dont find this a reasonable definition. I am using a 25% drop as a gauge.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Fitzgerald View Post
    I'm still in......

    I haven't sold one share........

    Ohhh Baby I did. My CB went from 46 to 60 in a matter of hours after AIG fell.

    SOLD~!!!!!!

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
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    Lewiston, Idaho
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    Nothing like adding to the problem eh Cliff!


    Encourage everyone to panic....sell at a loss.........


    Folks,


    The problems with the market are complex. Not nearly as simply "black and white" as some folks would have you believe.

    I'd take any results you see posted on the internet....any advice about the market......I'd be somewhat skeptical....and research and analyze it for yourself.

    I can make unsubstantiated statements claiming anything about how well I may have done in the market and you have no proof that I own or have ever owned one share. There are a lot of folks out there who can speak the language but really don't understand the culture or the market. It's like being able to speak a foreign language but not understanding the society or culture.

    2ndly The internet is the biggest rumor mill in the entire world. When I was a child the rumor mills were limited to hair salons, barber shops, backyard fences and coffee cups in the local cafes. Today, the internet is the worlds' largest rumor mill that has an accuracy percentile that rates often in the single digits.

    3rdly...In our society today and in businesses there are too many focused experts. They may be experts in a very specialized area but can't and don't see the BIG Picture....the overall effect or......they understand the theory but don't understand what happens when the theory is practically applied. Theory and practice often don't agree.

    I'd advise you to believe little of what you read on the internet.....I'd even be skeptical of photos and videos you see on the internet.

    The skammers have improved and modernized their techiques too. Snake oil is still just snake oil......but wait.......if you order in the next 15 minutes....
    Ken

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arnold E Schnitzer View Post
    America has had a 30 year debt orgy. The hangover is going to be tough. As George Soros said on Moyers last night, "It's the end of an era".
    yep ..and now it's payday..we danced, now the fiddler wants his money...
    Give an honest days work for an honest days pay

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