Norm's rabbet and brad construction

[Jim Becker]

This thread has really got off-topic at this point...good discussion, however.

There are many factors that affect the age distribution of folks in this hobby. Frankly, the same factors affect the age distribution of folks in any hobby these days. The business world and family obligations leave a lot less time for hobbies. Folks leisure activity choices have expanded due to technology and many choose things that don't involve building things, no matter whether via wood or anything else. And the new "young" from a lifestyle standpoint is also a lot older than it was years ago.

I wish I would have "discovered" woodworking earlier, but my circumstances didn't support that. Until I was able to buy a home, there were no tools in my life outside of a screwdriver and hammer for hanging pictures. My woodworking to that point was constructing some R/C planes (another hobby that has skewed way older) on the dining room table. But once in that house, I started to watch TOH and NYW weekly, began with some nice home improvement projects and moved on to woodworking with mostly horrible and uninformed tool choices. The Internet wasn't really cooking yet at that point and Sears was still the mecca for tools, if you know what I mean... I didn't have the disposable income that I had later on, either.

So regardless of Norm's changes in technique and project complexity over time, I do think that I'm a good example of someone "caught" by his influence in my thirties. Which is at least something of a younger age. Hmm...isn't the 30s something like what being a teenager used to be? LOL

[Joe Cunningham]

Brag about your hand-cut dovetails? Norm's wham-bam-dado-brad is about as involved as the few younger woodworkers want to be.

I am taking a class at my local Woodcraft. Half the class is under 40, the other half retired. [edit] One of the instructors is in his 20s and has been doing this for 8 years.

I do mostly hand tool work and am 38. I might consider some power tools to cut down on the grunt work, but enjoy hunting around for old tools. The first joints I cut were hand-cut dovetails--ugly but functional and they still hold the box for my chisels.

I got hooked by Norm and NYW. I've never used a brad nailer in my life and don't plan on it.

[David Keller NC]

I'm one of those that think's Norms joinery methods are neither good nor bad, just sometimes inappropriate to the piece that he's building (and sometimes highly appropriate).

But back to your original question - do you have the tools and ability to use something other than the glue and brads that are in the plans? If you're interested in learning to cut dovetails (whether by power or by hand), this is a pretty good project to try it out on. Some will suggest a number of practice boards before using your new-found skills on an actual project, but I don't. I wouldn't suggest learning the technique on a 5-drawer chest of drawers, either, though.

If you've no interest in dovetails, there are other drawer construction methods that will be a compromise between the ultimate strength and craftmanship of dovetails, and nailing the drawers together. One (and I think it's already been mentioned) is a lock-miter joint on the front and backs of the drawer. The joint provides more face-grain gluing area, and a mechnical lock. So long as you have a router table, they're also very easy to make.

[Jeffrey Makiel]

I often heard Norm state that the 'brads act like clamps while the glue dries'. I don't see how brads are a substitute for clamp pressure.

Considering the rapid speed that modern yellow glue sets at, possibly as fast as 20 minutes, I'm not sure I'd fuss with brads and risk blow thru. Besides, I prefer to maintain real clamp pressure via woodworking clamps as per the glue manufacturer's direction for a nice strong glue joint.

I'm not sure how much time brads may save, or whether they provide any significant additional strength beyond the glue itself.

-Jeff

[John Shuk]

There's got to be someone on here in the advertising/marketing/TV industry with access to the Nielson ratings. Today, TV can tell an advertiser, and that is what Norm is about, who is watching. Maybe he skews younger than I think. Let the data speak.

However, one thing which is indisputable, used woodworking machines don't sell as rapidly or bring as much money as they did years ago. I've been following this market for forty years and there are more table saws, jointers, band saws, radial arm saws for sale and for a much smaller percentage of retail than ever before. If young guys are so into woodworking, why are there so many machines not selling or selling so cheaply? Every week on craigslist, I see machines in the free section which would have brought decent money years ago. The holy grail of the woodworking hobby has been the Delta Unisaw. Forever, a complete working Uni was worth 50% of retail. Today, 33% is more like the average used price. On any given week, from estate sales and craigslist, I could fill a shop with working tools at scrap price. Where is the demand for machines if all these young guys are into woodworking?

thnx, jack vines

thnx, jack vines

Money has been pretty easy to come by in the form of credit in the past few years. It's led to some pretty big problems lately. Hard to justify somebody else's used stuff when new has a warranty. I think the tablesaw has won out over the radial arm saw as well so they are relegated to the bottom of the heap.

[Kirk Poore]

Money has been pretty easy to come by in the form of credit in the past few years. It's led to some pretty big problems lately. Hard to justify somebody else's used stuff when new has a warranty. I think the tablesaw has won out over the radial arm saw as well so they are relegated to the bottom of the heap.

I also think there has been a change in attitude toward older machines, say over 10 years old. To younger generations raised with computer equipment:
(1) You can't fix it, other than swapping out a small subset of components.
(2) You can't get compatible components for most older equipment.
(3) Newer equipment has more features and runs better (i.e., faster) than old equipment.

None of this is true for Unisaw-class WW equipment, with the possible exception of more features. But many people see rust or peeling paint instead of quality, and don't want to invest the time and a little bit of money to bring back quality. After they're discovered they like woodworking, but have been frustrated by their second plastic-and-aluminum wonder gizmo multi-tool wearing out in a year or two, they may begin the search for quality and durability.

As for the others, well, there have always been benchtop junk 10" tablesaws and if you only need it twice a year, maybe that's good enough.

Oh, and I don't use brads either. But it does make for a nice drinking game when you're not working in the shop. Norm is a good inspiration even if I don't make his projects.

Kirk

[David Keller NC]

Jeremy - If you haven't already decided on what method to use, the latest issue of FWW that came in the mail today has a feature article entitled "The Right Drawer for Your Project", and the cover photo shows a case with dovetailed, sliding dovetailed, rabbetted and pinned, and false-front drawers. I haven't read it yet, but it might be worth picking up a copy at the newstand if you don't already have a subscription.

[J. Z. Guest]

I'll look for that at Borders next Thursday. (I'm there for Chess Night anyway) Thanks for the tip.

I'm thinking lock miter is a good compromise between strength and practicality. Being a jewelry chest, it doesn't need to be super-strong. But I'd like something a little stronger & classier than rabbet & brads.