Page 42 of 46 FirstFirst ... 32383940414243444546 LastLast
Results 616 to 630 of 676

Thread: The Great Morris Chair project

  1. #616
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Rochester, NY
    Posts
    681
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Leung View Post
    The mitered infill sample leg looks great. The joint looks clean and strong. I used a lock miter bit for my chair legs and butt joints and veneers on the ottomans. I'll try the miter infill technique in the future. Are you making the ottoman legs thinner or are you sticking with 2-1/4"? If you are making them thinner would you still be able to use the pieces you cut already?
    Thanks Mike, hopefully I can do it consistently for all the legs! A lock miter joint is authentic, strong, and should outlast us. I am going to try sticking with 2-1/4" for the mitered infills, and if I flub those my backup plan is to go back to the pieces I already cut and do veneers. Those legs would end up narrower than 2-1/4"; probably 2-1/8" or thereabouts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Leung View Post
    Are you planning on adding a jointer and planer to your shop in midst of the chair build? I recommend the Inca jointer/ planer combos. They don't take up a lot of shop space but provide from 8- to 10-1/4" of cutting width. I have the Inca 570 myself and use it on every project. I have seen 8" models go for as little as $200 on craigslist.
    I am not sure. Space is not a huge issue, but getting heavy things down into the basement is. Plus I don't know if I want more machinery to maintain. A few good planes are easy to move around and simple to maintain. This is only a hobby, so I don't care too much about speed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Leung View Post
    I snuck a little bit of time this weekend and fitted the arms to the rails on one chair. One more pair of arms to fit. I think I only have to make the corbels, the back rest pins and the cleats. The corbels in all of the plans I have seen are shaped differently. I need to draw some out in sketchup first before committing.
    Sounds like you are in the home stretch for sure! I look forward to seeing your completed pieces. I guess I will posting by myself here for a while .

    Mike

  2. #617
    Hello all,

    I'm new to the forum, but have been lurking for a while reading and trying to come up to speed on what is happening. I've just started a pair of Morris chairs, and found this thread, so I thought I would chime in...

    I've read some of this thread, and skimmed a lot of it, and it seems that folks are sticking to the Craftsman style interpretation. A question to the thread contributes: Would I be shunned if I worked on a slightly different interpretation? I've recently finished a trestle table with live edges, and other "non-craftsman style" features, and want these chars to sort of go with it. Maybe a bit of live edge on the arms, the spindles or slats under the arms real branches or at least partially so. I have a lot of red oak that I milled out of local trees, so the primary wood will be out of that, not quarter sawn white oak. There may also be bits of maple or elm, or even lilac involved as well. (I have several bits of lilac that were pruned off some rather large bushes around the family homestead I've been making tool handles out of.)

    I'm in the early stages at this point, so don't have anything to show, and don't want to offend...

  3. #618
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Winnipeg, MB, Canada
    Posts
    22
    Sounds very interesting, I'm looking forward to see how you incorporate the live edge. Just on the arms or the legs too, what is your plan?
    Its all good when its done. If its not good, its not done.

  4. #619
    At the moment, I only have a general idea really. I have a "plan" that I purchased, but the result will not necessarily match it. I'm only using it for general dimensions. This project gives me a reason to try steam bending. I'll give it a shot on the back slat's first, and if I can get that to work, I'll move on to the arms. (All my oak is air dried and the curves are rather gentle so hopefully no big issues.) Most of the oak I have ranges from 8 inches up to over 16 inches wide, with very little wain in most of the boards. (I milled this a few years ago and wasn't thinking live edge, so we used the slabs as firewood.) Consequently I'll put the live edge to the outside of the arms. The legs probably not. That's about as far as I've gotten at the moment. Much of my work is done this way. Look at designs for the basic idea, look at the wood and see what it wants to do and whether or not it even wants to be in this project...

  5. #620
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Rochester, NY
    Posts
    681
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Parent View Post
    Would I be shunned if I worked on a slightly different interpretation?
    Hi Tony,

    Speaking for myself, no, you would not be shunned. A number of variations can be found throughout this thread, which I believe adds interest and richness. Your ideas definitely sound like something I would like to see, at any rate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Parent View Post
    This project gives me a reason to try steam bending. I'll give it a shot on the back slat's first, and if I can get that to work, I'll move on to the arms. (All my oak is air dried and the curves are rather gentle so hopefully no big issues.)
    This was my intention as well, except my wood is kiln dried and now I am second-guessing my choice. I am a long ways from the curved bits still. If you get there ahead of me I would be most interested in your experiences as this thread doesn't contain much info on steam bending.

    Mike

  6. #621
    Hi Everyone. I was pretty nervous about my bent arms and now I see why. There is a slight gap between the front of the arm and the front leg. This is not because the tenon is too high/long. In the end my angled cut was slightly off causing the arm to be a little off in resting flat against the front leg - in effect it is leaning back just a bit - the small gap is larger near the front of the front leg. It also seems to be causing a slight gap along the back angled leg (pics attached, but it might be hard to see what I am talking about).

    If I clamp it pretty tightly the gaps disappear on both front and rear legs, but having what seems like a lot of stress in this glue up (even though it will be pinned) doesn't seem like a good idea. I'd really like it to fit well and want to take my time and do it right. I'm trying to figure this out, but I need someone who actually knows something to check my thinking. I see a couple of options.

    1. Either sand, scrape or even take a slight cut with the bandsaw on the underside of the arm to get the angle right.
    2. Chisel/sand/file the cheeks of the leg tenon at a slight angle back to match the arm (of course I glued up the sides already).

    I have a third idea that is too dumb to post. Or is there some other idea?

    If I build another one I know what to do to avoid this (I think), but I'm stuck. Any help or advice is appreciated.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  7. #622
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Rochester, NY
    Posts
    681
    Hi Dean,

    Sorry to hear of your trouble. It seems like this hobby we go from one problem to the next..

    I am having trouble seeing where the arm is interfering. Is it along the top of the upper side rail? Does the underside of your arm have a dado to contain the side rail?

    I would not try to clamp it out either. Seems like asking for trouble.

    Mike

  8. #623
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Rochester, NY
    Posts
    681

    Ottoman Legs

    I think I am finally done with my ottoman legs, at least the construction part. I'm just another slob with a house, a job, and a girlfriend who lives 100 miles away, so my spare time is of course quite limited.

    As I mentioned earlier, I decided to try the mitered infill method (thanks again to Walt for the introduction!). It took me a long time to work out the kinks in this tricky process, with a couple lousy test legs made in the process. I believe this test phase paid off though, as the corners in my "production" pieces came out tight. Ultimately, I was just not getting clean enough cuts from the table saw so I built a couple jigs for my planes to clean up the miters.

    First was the jig to clean the insides of the core miters. To this I attached my rabbit block plane, as I needed a blade that went all the way into the corner. A shoulder plane would also have worked, but I don't have one.. yet..
    P1020810.20.jpg

    Next is the jig I used to clean and tune the infills themselves. It's just a big piece of ash I had leftover from my bench build. I sawed it roughly at 45° on the bandsaw, then trued the sawn edge with my plane. A fleet of rare earth magnets hold the plane in place. If I were doing again I might try mechanical fasteners or bigger magnets. It is designed so I can mount the plane in either direction, although I only ever used it in the orientation you see here. It worked very well, but you gotta watch your fingertips!
    P1020824.20.jpg P1020815.20.jpg

    Once I had a core and infill set fitting properly I glued them up overnight, then came back the next day to clean them up. To get to the final dimensions I planed opposite sides down until I had the 2-1/4" thickness, then I planed the remaining two sides until the miters met at the corners.
    P1020819.20.jpg

    Once all the legs were squared up, all I had to do was trim them to length. There was barely enough reach on my crosscut sled, but it was enough:
    P1020832.20.jpg

    Here I am trying to keep all the pieces straight. They go together in a particular way and I didn't want to lose the matches at this stage!
    P1020835.20.jpg

    Okay, all matched up again and safely marked on the bottoms. I will wait until just before assembly to chamfer the ends; there will be a lot of handling while I try to stick holes in all these pieces, and my hope is that chamfering the ends afterwards will keep them fresher. EDIT: Oops, in reviewing the pic I see one leg that is out of place. Can you spot the mistake? I am headed down right now to fix it.
    P1020836.20.jpg

    My favorite corner. I like how the flecks appear to wrap around. I wish more had turned out like this.
    P1020841.20.jpg

    Thanks for looking,

    Mike
    Last edited by Michael Peet; 04-09-2014 at 7:41 PM.

  9. #624
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Windsor, ON
    Posts
    657
    Blog Entries
    3

    Exclamation garlic dills...

    Quote Originally Posted by Dean Karavite View Post
    Hi Everyone. I was pretty nervous about my bent arms and now I see why.
    There is a slight gap between the front of the arm and the front leg.
    (pics attached, but it might be hard to see what I am talking about).

    If I clamp it pretty tightly the gaps disappear on both front and rear legs, but I want to do it right. I'm trying to figure this out.

    I have a third idea that is too dumb to post. Or is there some other idea?

    If I build another one I know what to do to avoid this (I think), but I'm stuck.
    Any help or advice is appreciated.
    Welcome aboard Dean,
    Good on you for finding the courage to tackle an "M" chair of your own.
    Thanks for your kind words and we're sure glad you joined us.
    Seems you have woodworked yourself into a pickle?!?

    Let's get a handle on the knowns, before we offer helpful ideas.

    Dean is a Creek contributor in Philly and joined this thread in January, 2014.
    He shared a pair of build-in-progress pics in his first "M" chair post #601.
    He is building a bent arm Morris chair, is unsure about wood finishing and has some mysterious Sapele source?
    (a figured African hardwood similar-to and even substituted-for Mahogany)

    The first pics of Dean's half-built chair show a square tenon on top of all 4 legs.
    Each tenon will be let-in to the underside of the arms into blind mortises.

    Slat galleries, top & bottom rails and front and back legs are now one-glued-piece yielding a pair of side frames.
    Dean has reached the Big Hurdle, which is attaching bent arms(dogleg) onto side frames.
    He has not mentioned, but it seems likely his front and back stretchers are NOT yet glued to the sideframes. [Dean?]

    Perhaps a little Creek-power can conjure up some insight & ideas?
    Come-o'wwn crew... surely someone can suggest a little workshop magic?!?

    Dean, how about a pic of the whole arm in place over the whole sideframe?
    Seeing both gaps at once could surely shed some light on this sticky situation...

    Man down! rally around!
    We're not gonna leave a man on the battlefield.
    Can anyone offer a lil help for Dean?
    thanks,
    w

    ps
    I think inquiring minds want to hear this 3rd idea???



    Last edited by Walt Caza; 04-12-2014 at 6:26 PM. Reason: dumb can be fun...
    There are no shortcuts to anywhere worth going! WCC

    Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind - Dr. Seuss

    Crohn's takes guts. WCC

  10. #625
    Quote Originally Posted by Walt Caza View Post

    ...
    Let's get a handle on the knowns, before we offer helpful ideas.
    ...
    The first pics of Dean's half-built chair show a square tenon on top of all 4 legs.
    Each tenon will be let-in to the underside of the arms into blind mortises.
    ...
    Slat galleries, top & bottom rails and front and back legs are now one-glued-piece yielding a pair of side frames.
    Dean has reached the Big Hurdle, which is attaching bent arms(dogleg) onto side frames.
    He has not mentioned, but it seems likely his front and back stretchers are NOT yet glued to the sideframes. [Dean?]
    ...
    Dean, how about a pic of the whole arm in place over the whole sideframe?
    Seeing both gaps at once could surely shed some light on this sticky situation...

    I cannot quite picture the exact issue. So along the lines of Walt's reply, I will second the request for a bit more info.

    From your words, I am hearing this (Exaggerated for detail...):
    ChairProb1.jpg

    But from the pictures you gave, I'm seeing this:

    ChairProb2.jpg

    Are either of these the issue? Or is it something different? Given the fact that you state that you can clamp the arms down and the gap tightens up, I would say it's the first, but the images are confusing me a bit...
    Last edited by Tony Parent; 04-13-2014 at 8:47 AM. Reason: Typo

  11. #626
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Windsor, ON
    Posts
    657
    Blog Entries
    3

    Lightbulb another attempt to sketch Dean's gap trap... (#3)

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Peet View Post
    Hi Dean,
    I am having trouble seeing where the arm is interfering. Is it along the top of the upper side rail? Does the underside of your arm have a dado to contain the side rail?
    I would not try to clamp it out either. Seems like asking for trouble.

    Mike
    Good Day chair fans,
    Seems we are struggling to get a good grasp of Dean's gap problem?

    Last night I was thinking that wood is made up of lignin and cellulose.
    And that modern glues can be stronger than the wood itself.
    To the effect that if Dean's gaps could be clamped fully closed, to go ahead and glue them up,
    clamped tight in such a way that pinning could be accomplished while still firmly clamped.
    Might work out okay, only time and the marching seasons could tell.

    I was even thinking he could add long and robust screws drilled perpendicular through the top of the arms,
    as extra insurance to keep them tight over time.
    Discreet or contrasting plugs could be layed out tidy.

    But newcomer Tony has provided a pair of nifty sketches. His second sketch sent me back to Dean's four photos.
    M_chair_Dean_back_leg_tenon.jpgM_chair_Dean_front_leg_tenon.jpg

    The first pic from post #601, as well as #2 & 4, show what I now believe to be the cause of the gaps.
    Keen eyes may spot yellow illustration lines of what-I-now-believe-to-be the problem.
    Complicated by the top rail being glued into both legs.

    Tony's sketches look much more slick than my own quick effort?
    Morris_chair_Dean_leg_tenon_pickle_.jpg
    Mine looks better than scribbled on an old restaurant napkin anyway.
    We'll call this one gap sketch version #3.[I missed the flat on the top rail. oops]

    This is my current grasp of Dean's gaps.
    Thanks to our collaboration, we are heading toward understanding the problem,
    which has to happen before we can discuss possible solutions.

    Dean please let us know if version #3 holds true?
    The confusing statement was that clamps could close your gaps???
    Did you check that the gaps had indeed closed on all four sides?
    Did it look satisfactory?

    They say that the proof is in the pudding.
    Once we reach a confirmed understanding of the problem,
    then we can figure out how Dean's sideframes differ from his planned design.
    After which we can discuss creative solutions.

    play safe,
    w

    ps
    the ball's in your court Mr. DK
    Last edited by Walt Caza; 04-13-2014 at 3:25 PM. Reason: oops...
    There are no shortcuts to anywhere worth going! WCC

    Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind - Dr. Seuss

    Crohn's takes guts. WCC

  12. #627
    Tony and Walt, thank you very much for your replies! Please accept my apologies for not responding sooner (it has been a busy week).

    Tony's diagram approach is brilliant and so much smarter that what I have been trying to do with text and poorly lit pictures. Plus I have had some time to look it over more carefully. So, my attached overly simplistic and completely out of proportion drawing should help explain my little problem.

    The arms are angled about 9.5 degrees. At the back of the front leg ("A") the arm is flush with the tenon cheeks. At the front of the from leg ("B") there is a gap. The diagram is really exaggerating the gap, but it is just under a 1/16th. So, my conclusion is I was just a tad off in cutting the angle on my arms. Given this should I:

    1. Clamp the heck out of it to close the gap and hope the glue holds for 20-30 years? (kidding on this one).
    2. Pare/chisel the tenon cheeks to a slight angle to compensate and get a flush fit.
    3. Scrape/sand/cut/plane the underside of the arm to get a flush fit.

    I'm guessing #2 is the best approach, but maybe there is something else? I'm a rookie on anything other than 90 degree angle furniture, so any advice is appreciated.

    Thanks again, I really do appreciate your time and thought on this. I'm actually enjoying making this chair and my most valuable lesson so far is to calmly walk away and think out problems (or post online and have others think out problems for you).
    Attached Images Attached Images

  13. #628
    Quote Originally Posted by Dean Karavite View Post
    The arms are angled about 9.5 degrees. At the back of the front leg ("A") the arm is flush with the tenon cheeks. At the front of the from leg ("B") there is a gap. The diagram is really exaggerating the gap, but it is just under a 1/16th. So, my conclusion is I was just a tad off in cutting the angle on my arms. Given this should I:

    1. Clamp the heck out of it to close the gap and hope the glue holds for 20-30 years? (kidding on this one).
    I would stay away from this if you can. Yes it may hold for a year or two, maybe even more, but eventually with the seasonal changes in the wood, something will give.

    2. Pare/chisel the tenon cheeks to a slight angle to compensate and get a flush fit.
    3. Scrape/sand/cut/plane the underside of the arm to get a flush fit.

    I'm guessing #2 is the best approach, but maybe there is something else? I'm a rookie on anything other than 90 degree angle furniture, so any advice is appreciated.
    There is a number 4 if you have room and the right saw. I've heard it called "Kerfing in" but I can't find an example at the moment on the web that describes it. Basically, with the arm in place, you place a saw flat to the underside of your arm, and gently saw the shoulder using the underside of the arm as a guide. The new kerf created by the saw will remove little to nothing on the "light side" and more on the "heavy side" if that makes sense.

    ChairProb3.pngThis is obviously best done with a saw with little set. A Japanese pull saw or a flush cutting saw would be ideal. This of coarse shortens the legs by a small amount, but so would other alternatives. This offers a bit more control over the chisel, if you can get the saw in to the area. If you have some scrap pine or something, I would mock up your issue and see if this works for you

    If you can't go this route, I would still start off the same as for kerfing in, only use a flexible ruler as a consistent spacer. Lay if flat on the underside of the arm, and draw a pencil line along the leg. (Given the size of the gap you mention, one steel ruler should be sufficient. If not stack a couple.) This will give you a consistent space from the arm as a guide. From there you can use a bit of sandpaper attached to a stick to sand down the back side to just shy of your line. Test fit as you go so you don't go too far and end up with the problem in the other direction...

    Number 3 would be difficult to do without it looking like an, "oops"... (At least for me.)

    Hope this helps...
    Last edited by Tony Parent; 04-14-2014 at 7:26 AM. Reason: typo... Gotta stop posting late at night...

  14. #629
    Thanks again Tony and Walt. Walt, I think you pinpointed the source of my problem and Tony offered a way out.

    "Kerfing in" is better than anything I thought of and doing that to get rid of this 1/16 or less of a gap seems the best option. I promise I will take my time.

    Thanks again, I really appreciate your time and attention!

  15. #630

    some mock ups

    Here are a couple mockups of what my sides might look like... They are more washed out then I would like, probably from a combination of crappy cell phone camera and overhead florescent bulbs. Hopefully you get the gist. The sticks are lilac, the rails will definitely be something else. Those are just thin stock I placed there to give the effect of some horizontal rails. Probably closer to the last couple of pics if I can plane out that stain...

    2014-04-14_23-02-47.jpg

    2014-04-14_23-04-33.jpg

    2014-04-14_23-07-24.jpg

    2014-04-14_23-24-19.jpg

    2014-04-14_23-23-58.jpg

Similar Threads

  1. Spindle Captains chair
    By Tom Spallone in forum General Woodworking and Power Tools
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 01-25-2007, 9:27 PM
  2. Chair information
    By John Timberlake in forum General Woodworking and Power Tools
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 10-29-2006, 10:50 PM
  3. Lets improve this chair
    By Jeff Horton in forum Design Forum
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 09-18-2006, 1:00 PM
  4. Chair for a secretary
    By Alfredo Rodriguez Garcia in forum Neanderthal Haven
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 05-15-2006, 11:12 PM
  5. Mantle “Capper” Project Complete & Installed
    By Jim Becker in forum Woodworking Projects
    Replies: 32
    Last Post: 03-24-2005, 7:24 PM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •