The Great Morris Chair project

[Dean Karavite]

Hello Everyone. Walt, I sent you a PM thanking you for all your time and work here and, without seeing Rob's post above, I also told you this is the best woodworking thread I have ever found. So there you go, proof you are the best!


I finally got my act together to build a chair, but my wood choice is a little unorthodox. It is sapele. I came into a big stack of this wood and figured, what the heck, why not use it for a bent arm Morris chair.


I'm about halfway done, but I am thinking ahead to finishing and I have no idea what to do. I do not have a sprayer and am not an expert on finishing. I have used Danish oil then shellac and wax on this same sapele and it looks nice (pop, nice color, figure accented...), but I can't imagine how I would sand those 50 spindles (34 chair, 16 ottoman) and all the spaces between who knows how many coats of shellac. Or am I missing something? Ideally I would like some kind of fool proof wipe on approach, but I'm willing to put in the work if I can get better results. I know I need to test on scrap, but I honestly don't even know what I should try testing. Another reason I am shying away from shellac is I can imagine someone resting a drink on the arms (probably me) and while it would be nice to have better protection, I don't want a glossy poly look. So, any advice would be greatly appreciated.


Attached is a pic of the chair and ottoman as they are now and another pic of one side with some mineral spirits to get a better look at the wood (it needs a little more sanding).

IMG_2798.jpgIMG_2806.jpg

[Dennis Pickerl]

Dean:

I've done a number of projects with spindles and my practice is to sand and finish all the spindles and the members with the mortises prior to assembly. I gang sand, stain and clear coat in advance with a final clear coat after assembly. Your project looks good but assembled so it may be too late in this case.

I echo the other comments regarding Walt, this is, without a doubt, the best thread going.

Dennis

[Rob Parsons]

Dean,
I would use an oil based finish. It will give you the same look as the mineral spirits.

I built a table with a sapele top and used Waterlox, which is just a thinned varnish. It turned out well. Lately I've been using General's Arm-r-seal on other projects, and I like it a lot too.

DSCN0935.jpg

I also try to sand as much as possible before assembly on complicated pieces.

[Dean Karavite]

Dean:

I've done a number of projects with spindles and my practice is to sand and finish all the spindles and the members with the mortises prior to assembly. I gang sand, stain and clear coat in advance with a final clear coat after assembly. Your project looks good but assembled so it may be too late in this case.

Thanks Dennis, but that was one of the most depressing replies I ever received! :-) Why didn't I think of this?

[Dean Karavite]

Thanks Rob. Can I ask a dumb question. If I am light on applying either of these products, do they require much sanding between coats. My main experience is with shellac and I find I have to do a lot of sanding (and a lot of coats), but I may have bad technique. Or is this more like an oil product and applied like Danish Oil?

[Rob Parsons]

Dean,
If you apply it lightly, you just have to scuff sand between coats.

A varnish product (urethane, alkyd, or spar) is a film finish. It dries slowly and will gather some dust nibs.

Here is what I do. Sand the bare wood to 150 or 180 grit.

Then, I like to wipe or brush it on lightly. I try to leave the thinnest of coats. If it's on a horizontal surface, you can apply it thicker because it won't run. Then scuff sand between coats. One or two passes with 320 or 400 grit. Just enough to knock off the dust nibs. You can get away with two coats on the less prominent areas like the spindles. For the areas that will get more wear like the arms, I would put at least three heavier coats, probably four.

After the the last coat is totally dry and cured (like a week later), rub it out with a brown paper bag for a smooth finish.

There is a lot of literature out there on applying oil film finishes, and different techniques, so don't just take my word for it.

[Dean Karavite]

Dean,
If you apply it lightly, you just have to scuff sand between coats.

A varnish product (urethane, alkyd, or spar) is a film finish. It dries slowly and will gather some dust nibs.

Here is what I do. Sand the bare wood to 150 or 180 grit.

Then, I like to wipe or brush it on lightly. I try to leave the thinnest of coats. If it's on a horizontal surface, you can apply it thicker because it won't run. Then scuff sand between coats. One or two passes with 320 or 400 grit. Just enough to knock off the dust nibs. You can get away with two coats on the less prominent areas like the spindles. For the areas that will get more wear like the arms, I would put at least three heavier coats, probably four.

After the the last coat is totally dry and cured (like a week later), rub it out with a brown paper bag for a smooth finish.

There is a lot of literature out there on applying oil film finishes, and different techniques, so don't just take my word for it.

Thanks Rob. I have avoided learning about finishing and instead of dreading it, I'm going to take the time to read up, practice/experiment and do this right.

[Mike Leung]

Your chair is looking great Dean. I usually use a wipe on poly for my projects. Getting in between the spindles will be a little tedious but doable. I was thinking about a mortise for the corbels similar to what you did. I have some sapele in my shop waiting to be made into something. I like the look of the Sapele on your chair.

Hello Everyone. Walt, I sent you a PM thanking you for all your time and work here and, without seeing Rob's post above, I also told you this is the best woodworking thread I have ever found. So there you go, proof you are the best!


I finally got my act together to build a chair, but my wood choice is a little unorthodox. It is sapele. I came into a big stack of this wood and figured, what the heck, why not use it for a bent arm Morris chair.


I'm about halfway done, but I am thinking ahead to finishing and I have no idea what to do. I do not have a sprayer and am not an expert on finishing. I have used Danish oil then shellac and wax on this same sapele and it looks nice (pop, nice color, figure accented...), but I can't imagine how I would sand those 50 spindles (34 chair, 16 ottoman) and all the spaces between who knows how many coats of shellac. Or am I missing something? Ideally I would like some kind of fool proof wipe on approach, but I'm willing to put in the work if I can get better results. I know I need to test on scrap, but I honestly don't even know what I should try testing. Another reason I am shying away from shellac is I can imagine someone resting a drink on the arms (probably me) and while it would be nice to have better protection, I don't want a glossy poly look. So, any advice would be greatly appreciated.


Attached is a pic of the chair and ottoman as they are now and another pic of one side with some mineral spirits to get a better look at the wood (it needs a little more sanding).

IMG_2798.jpgIMG_2806.jpg

[Michael Peet]

I finally finished scrubbing the crud off my load of rough lumber. A lot of effort but worth it as now the flake patterns are much easier to see:

P1020773.20.jpg

I got 4 garbage bags full of of shavings from the ordeal. I think I will take them to camp this year and use them to start fires.
P1020778.20.jpg

With that out of the way I chose a couple boards from which to cut the parts for the ottoman legs. I am making two of everything for double the fun.
P1020779.20.jpg

And finally some cutting occurs! I picked up a new dedicated rip blade to use instead of the combo WWII. The difference is night and day; the saw ate through the 5/4 lumber like it was nothing. They are in pairs because I want to use neighboring pieces for both legs on a side. I will do the same thing with the veneers.
P1020780.20.jpg

Speaking of veneers, my plan was to go with 2-ply laminations plus 1/8" veneers on each side to hide the seams. Now that my wood is cut I am second-guessing that veneer thickness, thinking I should go thinner. I will have to go back and read the thread again to see what people ended up using. I flirted with the idea of trying the mitered infill technique, but I chickened out. Once I get them glued up I will take a look and decide whether or not to plane the veneers down in-place. I might end up with legs slightly smaller than the 2 1/4" square, but hopefully it wouldn't be too noticeable. Oh well, live and learn (just in it for laughs, eh Walt?) This is why I am doing the ottomans first .

Mike

[Michael Peet]

Speaking of veneers, my plan was to go with 2-ply laminations plus 1/8" veneers on each side to hide the seams. Now that my wood is cut I am second-guessing that veneer thickness, thinking I should go thinner. I will have to go back and read the thread again to see what people ended up using.

Rats, my suspicions were correct. They were supposed to be 1/16", not 1/8". If we measure twice and cut once, how many times should we check the plans at the beginning?

My leg pieces were cut 2 1/16" wide. With a 1/16" veneer on each side I'm looking at 2 3/16" best case, 1/16" shy. Not the worst problem, and almost surely not my last mistake...

Mike

[Mike Leung]

Mike, That is not a problem. Your morris chair legs will be 2-1/4" so the Ottoman legs can be narrower. I made my ottoman legs 1-3/4" so they will look better proportionally.

Rats, my suspicions were correct. They were supposed to be 1/16", not 1/8". If we measure twice and cut once, how many times should we check the plans at the beginning?

My leg pieces were cut 2 1/16" wide. With a 1/16" veneer on each side I'm looking at 2 3/16" best case, 1/16" shy. Not the worst problem, and almost surely not my last mistake...

Mike

[Mike Leung]

My ottomans are coming together pretty quickly. I need to add the side slats still. I am not going to have the shelf on the bottom.
IMG_6626.jpg

[Dean Karavite]

Your chair is looking great Dean. I usually use a wipe on poly for my projects. Getting in between the spindles will be a little tedious but doable. I was thinking about a mortise for the corbels similar to what you did. I have some sapele in my shop waiting to be made into something. I like the look of the Sapele on your chair.

Mike, I'm sorry for the late reply - I haven't been here for a little while. Thanks for the kind words. I've seen a couple sapele Morris Chairs online, so I figured I'd try the same. Let me know if you do too. This one in particular is ridiculously good: https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...2875726&type=3

[Michael Peet]

Mike, That is not a problem. Your morris chair legs will be 2-1/4" so the Ottoman legs can be narrower. I made my ottoman legs 1-3/4" so they will look better proportionally.

Thanks for the encouragement, Mike. I started thinking that this was the universe's way of telling me to do the mitered infill construction like I wanted to try in the first place. Your ottomans are looking fine!

So I spent a little time trying out the mitered infill technique on some scraps of ash. Here is Walt's excellent thread on the subject: http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?89240-mitered-fascia-leg-photo-essay.

I did mine slightly different from Walt. As I have no jointer or planer, I decided to cut the infills both slightly narrow and slightly thick so I could tune the fit by taking shavings from the bottom with a hand plane. Also, the 45° cuts on the cores and the infills needed to fit together straight off the saw, so I cut them without moving the blade to ensure complimentary angles. The final cuts were the square ones to finish off the cores.

P1020785.20.JPGP1020795.20.JPG

I am pretty happy with the results, although it was a little time-consuming. I think I am going to take a step back and redo the legs this way. I will try to find a way to re-purpose the pieces I've already cut - corbels or slats or something.

Mike

[Mike Leung]

The mitered infill sample leg looks great. The joint looks clean and strong. I used a lock miter bit for my chair legs and butt joints and veneers on the ottomans. I'll try the miter infill technique in the future. Are you making the ottoman legs thinner or are you sticking with 2-1/4"? If you are making them thinner would you still be able to use the pieces you cut already?

Are you planning on adding a jointer and planer to your shop in midst of the chair build? I recommend the Inca jointer/ planer combos. They don't take up a lot of shop space but provide from 8- to 10-1/4" of cutting width. I have the Inca 570 myself and use it on every project. I have seen 8" models go for as little as $200 on craigslist.

I snuck a little bit of time this weekend and fitted the arms to the rails on one chair. One more pair of arms to fit. I think I only have to make the corbels, the back rest pins and the cleats. The corbels in all of the plans I have seen are shaped differently. I need to draw some out in sketchup first before committing.

Thanks for the encouragement, Mike. I started thinking that this was the universe's way of telling me to do the mitered infill construction like I wanted to try in the first place. Your ottomans are looking fine!

So I spent a little time trying out the mitered infill technique on some scraps of ash. Here is Walt's excellent thread on the subject: http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?89240-mitered-fascia-leg-photo-essay.

I did mine slightly different from Walt. As I have no jointer or planer, I decided to cut the infills both slightly narrow and slightly thick so I could tune the fit by taking shavings from the bottom with a hand plane. Also, the 45° cuts on the cores and the infills needed to fit together straight off the saw, so I cut them without moving the blade to ensure complimentary angles. The final cuts were the square ones to finish off the cores.

P1020785.20.JPGP1020795.20.JPG

I am pretty happy with the results, although it was a little time-consuming. I think I am going to take a step back and redo the legs this way. I will try to find a way to re-purpose the pieces I've already cut - corbels or slats or something.

Mike