Small school shop needs help

[curtis rosche]

I need some help at my school, my woodshop teacher has asked me to ask you guys for your help. our school is changing the school schedule from 4 classes to 6 classes. the issue with this is that our woodshop is full already. the shop is only 1600sqft, and we already have 4 classes that have from 16-20 kids in each. we barley have room for all of the projects now, and they expect there to be room for more projects for next year when there are 6 classes for 3 semesters. the other issue is that almost all of the classes are going to be between 18-24 kids per class next year, this isnt safe, and it wont work with wood 1 kids because they go through everything step by step together. so the really question is what we need help with, is there any written rules, like how many kids are allowed in a woodshop that size, or anything, that we could use to fight the amount of students that they are trying to put in the shop next year? any help would be useful.

thanks

curtis rosche

[Jim Becker]

Curtis, I would think that the number of supported students at one time would largely be dependent on available workstations/benches as well as the anticipated time required for each student to have access to shared power tools. For smaller projects, less bench space per student is necessary but there still needs to be enough separation for safe working.

[curtis rosche]

we have
1 radial arm saw
1mitersaw
1tablesaw
1planner
3 lathes
2drillpresses
1panlesander
1bandsaw
1jigsaw
1jointer
1mortiser
2router tables
we have a couple of the basic things like drills, sanders, routers, but 22 kids in a space that small is to many. thats more than 1 teacher can help, thats when kids just stand around and start fooling around and then fight, get hurt or do other stupid things. what we really are looking for is if there is some offical law/rule/guide lines, for how many people are allowed to be in a certain space with powertools at 1 time. or if there is a woodshop union that has rules or something like that. this is because our principal is one of those acedemics who has no clue about anything in a shop, never worked with tools, and never will, and because he doesnt know , he wont reason yet

[Joe Pelonio]

You could contact OSHA, the Fire Department, and your state architect's office as places that would be interested in enforcing a capacity limit. I'd start with the fire department as the most likely to respond quickly without opening up a can of worms with other issues resulting from an inspection.

[Tom Walz]

I think I would get consulting help from OSHA or your state agency.

In Washington we have WISHA. Labor and Industries has an excellent consulting program.

I had them in when I was setting up the new shop. Their help was very valuable, it was no more expensive to do things their way and it got me on the 'good guy' list.

Tom

[Ben Cadotte]

doh, don't know any "rules".

But the first place I would go is the schools insurance carrier. I am sure they would have a large input on a shop class size!

[Scott Kilroy]

Is anyone on the schools PTA board on your side? Keep in mind that if you get OSHA or some other group involved it could lead to closing the program. Sometimes schools do stuff like this to force a tenured teacher out?

[Jack Mincey]

Curtis,
This issue is different in each state. I max my classes out at 18 for safey reasons. Our shop is just a little over 1300 sq. ft. with 400 more for storage rooms. It is a safety issue for sure. Their are all kinds of reg's about square feet per student, but they don't have to be inforced. I got a new Sawstop two years ago for the extra safety it gives my shop. The County really can't afford not to set up the shop as safe as possible. If your instructor approaches it as a safety issue the school system should take notice.

Jack

[jason lambert]

It 's great to hear a school that wood shop program is growing most are downsized and phased out these days. Tread carefully you bring up danger and usally the first reaction is to close the program fromthe school, parents and insurance companies. Maybe take the approach that the learning experance is not at all efficient because there is not enought resources or machines avaiable, leave out danger all together. It is the schools responsibility to provide an efficient envirnment.

Now the bad thing is it usally takes time for the changes it soulds like you are just stuck in the wrong class or year that is going to be feeling the pain. If the program get to crouded they will get a bigger shop. Maybe a potition from all the students in the class that usally gets some attention that they want to get the most out of there time and not stand in line for machines. Hope this helps a bit.

[curtis rosche]

this teacher has been here for about 6 years. as for expanding the shop, the shop is full, the only thing would be to expand and thats not really possible, because the parking lot is right next to the shop, and to go anyother direction would either take from the art room or the metal/agg shop. we have a well equipted shop for the amount we have right now, its just the extra kids will start to cause a problem, more things broken, more projects not finished. and to top it off they cut the budgets thisyear, and right now he barley has enough to buy all of the wood needed, if every one pays lab fees.

[michael osadchuk]

Curtis, a much better informed reply will come from a teacher/woodworker involved in schools in your state and, preferably, within your own school district, but.....

my guess is that "outside" regulatory bodies would only have binding rules regarding the physical aspects of the woodworking classroom - guards on machinery, presence of fire extinguishers, maximum "occupancy" numbers, perhaps air filtration, etc. - but that matters that relate to the "supervision" of the students would be seen as falling within the competency and discretion of the school to manage

my suggestion would be check with other woodworking teachers in other schools in the same school district and in other school districts in the state to see what "minimum" or "best practice" guidelines have been followed elsewhere in the same/similar situations
and
use their experience to write a statement of what safeguards or changes (eg. competent classroom aides) need to be made to maintain a safe classroom setting and any likely losses in instructional outcomes (eg. less student learning on machinery because of less supervision)

such a 'reasoned' statement would make the principal (or people above that person) realize that they would taking on the liability for decreased safety of the students they are legally charged with keeping them safe on behalf of parents; this is when they may become more "reasonable" in seeking solutions with the frontline teacher

your friend should be careful not to "personalize" the disagreement or "bad-mouth" the individual who may be making these changes when your friend seeks out the experience of others; act "professionally"

if your teacher friend belongs to a union, he or she should also seek their advice on how to proceed and sometimes the union can represent the teacher's concerns to 'management' if an immediate supervisor is unresponsive......

good luck

michael

[Bob Rufener]

The issue seems to be lack of space. Have they checked into portable storage units to serve as a place for "work in process" A semi-trailer often is used if that is a possibility.

[curtis rosche]

its not just storage space its the amount of kids too

[jason lambert]

Odd it is growing and to many students are taking it, but yet they cut the buget. Why, did the whole buget get cut with this recession? Have you tried talking to the shop teacher directly or the principal and asking him about your concerns? I have found it helps to go up the chan even if you know the answer already. If you go outside the school first the reaction could end badly. Again think about getting a potition going once they see how many are concerned it can only help.

[Jack Mincey]

Vocational classes or "Career Technical Education" what they are called now are funded at the Federal level. State and local systems have very little control on the funds. My salary is even payed by federal money. If not for this federal money the whole program would be in big trouble. It is called Perkins money.
Jack