Stain and top coat pre-mix

[Scott LeBlanc]

At home I have the luxury of time and as many sandings and coats of whatever I want as much as I want... at work ...not so much. We've been playing with mixing laquer, urethane, etc with the stain to make a one pass application on (mostly) basswood that has at least the slightest "shine" to it. No luck. We buy gallons of stain mixed to match our laminate faces to spray on our non-laminated stiles from Sherwin-Williams.

Any suggestions?

[Sam Yerardi]

When you say that you are mixing stain - do you mean dye or pigment? One thing that might be causing the end result to be less glossy is the addition of pigments to the top coat, etc. The addition of that type of stain (pigments) may be diffracting the light enough that it detracts from the glossier sheen. That's how satin sheens, etc., differ from glossier sheens. In glossy finishes, there is less particulate in the mix or suspension to diffract light. The more that get added, the less glossy the end result. If that's the case, you might try dye as it is much finer than the particulate nature of pigments.

[Scott LeBlanc]

Maybe I should better explain our current process. Currently we spray straight stain on the wood edges. The finish is more than flat, it's downright chalky looking. We supply the paint store with a sample of the laminate we want to match, they start with the nearest matching satin they have and add pigment through their automated machine to arrive at a near match shade of stain. Are you suggesting in our straight stain application that because the original stain is modified with more pigment as oppossed to dye that this is the reason for the poor initial appearance or the fact that when we try to mix in a clear coat the mixture of the clear coat and the "pigmented" stain cause the poor final appearance.

[Sam Yerardi]

I think it's possible. I would certainly try the dye approach and see what you get.

[Steve Schoene]

If I understand this right, you want a stain/topcoat mix that will show some gloss when sprayed over bare basswood. Ask your self this question. If you sprayed one full coat of clear gloss lacquer directly on the bare basswood would you get a glossy finish? I strongly suspect that the answer would be no because too much of the finish would just soak into the wood. Consequently, I think you expect too much from a finish made by mixing a flat finish (the stain) with a gloss finish, and expecting it to be glossy.

I can't see anyother way to do this except with a two step process. The first stains and seals. That first coat does have to dry for it to achieve the sealing role, but surely some pretty fast curing stains are available for those that are equipped to spray lacquer based materials. Then a second pass with a top coat over can retain gloss because it is being layed over a sealed surface.

I don't quite understand where the laminate comes in to play in the items you are making. If I'm in the wrong ball park as to your problem, then a little more explanation about what you are making, and perhaps even a picture might be of help.

[Scott LeBlanc]

You are right on it. We are trying to cheat by making a one shot application when we all know it's not.

[Howard Acheson]

Steve, I believe Scott is trying to use a tinted lacquer or varnish (ala Polyshades) and then get away with only a single coat application.

[Sam Yerardi]

Steve has a good point about it being more than a single-step process. Another benefit of multiple layers is that you always have a previous layer to go back to if something goes wrong. With a single step approach, your only option in reversing what you've done is to go back to the bare wood.

[Scott LeBlanc]

Yes.. shop-made Polyshades! Everyone says don't mess with the Polyshades product so we haven't even tried it. We have so many shades/colors to match based on the customers whim and laminate selection that we have 20++ stain colors.

Bottom line is we are trying to save man hours (single application) and arrive at something that is acceptable. Finishing is not my area of responsibility in the shop but I thought if anyone knew of a shortcut it would be here. Thanks for the replies!