oneida cost and ductwork help.

[jason lambert]

I went to order a onida 2hp system and was allset till I got knocked over withthe price of there ductwork and accessories. The system was 950 ish but the rep gave me a quote of 3k by the time I was done this wasnot even inthe ball park of what I can spend. I am a hobbiest and work in w two car gurage so I don't have a tome of shop area I do have about 8 machines though which he was telling me the blast gates are $$$. they recomended using one blast gate and moving the hose beween machines to cut cost but than what is the point I will just get a portable.

Anyhow I have to revalute my dust collection needs besides this system being to much $$$ it is way complcated to run the ducts in my gurage because of obstcals.

Is there any way to keep the cost down if not what is the next best solution. I have searched for PVC and just can't seem to find it local to me, Summit, NJ.

[Mike Spanbauer]

Did you get the design layout from Oneida? If so, take that and call a local HVAC supplier (they are in the yellow pages).

The price should be 30-35%. Remember shipping that stuff is expensive and adds to the cost quite aggressively (even if they claim it is free shipping, I assure you it is built into the margins!)

However, you will need to budget roughly 50-80% of the cyclone for your initial ducting install. Blast gates, certain connectors (I'd get those from Oneida) such as gradual Y's and long radius elbows.

mike

[Jason Beam]

Mike has you covered - the duct work is almost always nearly as expensive as the cyclone. Permanent ducting is always going to be this way - it's just how it goes. 3k is plenty high, though.

You could probably do it for just over half that with cyclone included. It won't be as thick a metal and it may not be that handy spiral stuff, but snap-lock HVAC duct work generally works about as well as far as turbulence is concerned. The real cost is gonna be in fittings, really. Eliminate as many fittings as you can to keep the cost down. For my setup, with about 10 drops, I spent more on fittings than I did on the straight runs. I think that's pretty common unless you've got lots of long, straight runs.

I personally don't like PVC and stick with galvanized metal duct work. Do note, though, that you don't want to skimp too much here. You want at least 26ga steel or there's a chance that the cyclone will suck it flat. Some folks have reported that the cheaper 30ga steel at the BORGs were flattened instantly with the suction of the cyclone. It's tempting to go cheaper there, but you will really kick yourself if you skimp and the lines go flat on you. Some folks have reported that it works just fine, but about as many have reported collapse. It's probably worth it to look for the thickest stuff you can find

[Paul Johnstone]

I went to order a onida 2hp system and was allset till I got knocked over withthe price of there ductwork and accessories. The system was 950 ish but the rep gave me a quote of 3k by the time I was done .

I'm not saying to not buy the Oneida. People here rave about it.

I got a Clearvue, and one of the features is that you can use 6" sewer and drain PVC pipe. It also came with six 6" blast gates that fit S/D piping.
It's not too hard to transition the 6" PVC to flex hose.

I think I spent about 400 or so for all my sewer and drain pipe, including buying metal splitters. One splitter was a 6" into two 5" (Y shaped). The other was a 6" into 4" Y... I got the splitters from Penn State. They have an economy model of a Y which is less expensive and seems to work fine.

Anyhow, I came in at much less than 3k, and I have 5 tools permanently connected. Like I said, I think I spent around 400 for ductwork, or 500 tops.. Certainly not as much as you are looking at.

[bob cohen]

Hi Jason, I'm mulling over the same decision, with again money being the major obstacle. I already have the jet 1 1/2 HP DC1100, and have been thinking that maybe I should just get another one of those, or perhaps a 2 or 3 HP single stage collector. I am currently running flex hose from the jet to all of my machines, which are all equipped with blast gates. My longest run is close to 30 feet and dust collection is not really all that bad (at least of the large stuff I can see). I figure with the second single stage unit, positioned at the opposite end of my shop, I could cut the longest run to less than 20 feet or so.

My two other options are:
1) install the ducting now (hooked up to my current collector) and buy the cyclone later after my bank account is restored

2) buy the cyclone now and the ducting later, using my existing flex hose in the meantime. Will the flex hose collapse under the pressure of the cyclone...hmmm?

If I do go cyclone, I think I will go with the 3HP. I do not want to spend all of that money only to wish I had more suction!!!

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Hi Jason, I'm mulling over the same decision, with again money being the major obstacle. I already have the jet 1 1/2 HP DC1100, and have been thinking that maybe I should just get another one of those, or perhaps a 2 or 3 HP single stage collector. I am currently running flex hose from the jet to all of my machines, which are all equipped with blast gates. My longest run is close to 30 feet and dust collection is not really all that bad (at least of the large stuff I can see). I figure with the second single stage unit, positioned at the opposite end of my shop, I could cut the longest run to less than 20 feet or so.

My two other options are:
1) install the ducting now (hooked up to my current collector) and buy the cyclone later after my bank account is restored

2) buy the cyclone now and the ducting later, using my existing flex hose in the meantime. Will the flex hose collapse under the pressure of the cyclone...hmmm?

If I do go cyclone, I think I will go with the 3HP. I do not want to spend all of that money only to wish I had more suction!!!

Bob, there is really no comparison between the perforamce of a single stage collector and a 3hp cyclone. I just got my 3hp Gorilla done, which replaced a Delta single stage. Amazes me each time I fire it up. Personally I would buy the cyclone, and one or two drops, and just add more ducting when possible. "Free" shipping, and Oneida's ducting is quite a bit higher quality then the local HVAC stuff.

Your existing flex should work, if it is quality stuff, with a pretty heavy wire in it. Oneida's flex is some amazingly tough stuff by the way.

A 3hp system is huge. You will need to keep two blast gates open at all times. I leave my chopsaw station open usually, because it is furthest away, along with what ever other tool I'm running. I figure it filters all the air in the shop once every 7 minutes Dust dosen't stand a chance.

[bob cohen]

Steve, so you think a 2 HP cyclone may be large enough? I was planning on putting it in a small room adjacent to my main shop which is 17 by 35 feet. Including the 10 feet of ducting between the cyclone room and main shop, I'm looking at ~52 feet of main ducting (with one 90 degree turn) along the walls, and short drop downs to my disc/belt sander, bandsaw, jointer, planer. I'll need one 10 foot or so branch to reach my Table saw, which is in the middle of the shop. I thought I'd keep the jet for my router table, which is in the far end of the shop and would require an additional 17 feet of duct work to attach to the cyclone.

[jason lambert]

I wouldn't have as much problem if it was the cool snap together stuff but I need a ton of elbows to run around things in my shop and it is all screw together so reconfiguration is a problem. Just seems way to expensive, but than again I have not seen the stuff up close.

[Jim Becker]

Bob, I'm running an Oneida 2hp Commercial cyclone in my 21x30 shop with excellent performance. This is the equivalent of the current 2-2.5hp Super Gorilla. Machines serviced include a MiniMax sliding table saw, MiniMax 14" J/P combo and so forth. Main duct is 7" to the first branch and then 6" from there with primarily 5" drops.

Jason, you can source 26 gage snap lock straight pipe (sometimes called stove pipe) from anywhere you prefer. You'll probably want to source your laterals from either Onieda or Kencraft simply because they are build "backwards" from HVAC laterals. You may be able to source long radius adjustable elbows locally, too, but Oneida's or Kencraft's cost on those is not really too far out of line. You can make your own blast gates and they will be better than anything you can buy commercially, IMHO. That's the one thing I'd do differently at this point...

[Chris Padilla]

I like Lee Valley's 6" aluminum blast gates quite a bit as I had zero interest spending time to build my own.

[Adam Slutsky]

Jason: I'm in the same boat as you and also in NJ. Try Dunphey-Smith in Union. They have snap lock and spiral pipe as well as lower end 26 ga "flue type" fittings. You can get blast gates from blastgateco.com. Oneida's prices for hose and taper wye fittings are definitely not out of line considering they will ship for free for orders over $100.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Steve, so you think a 2 HP cyclone may be large enough? I was planning on putting it in a small room adjacent to my main shop which is 17 by 35 feet. Including the 10 feet of ducting between the cyclone room and main shop, I'm looking at ~52 feet of main ducting (with one 90 degree turn) along the walls, and short drop downs to my disc/belt sander, bandsaw, jointer, planer. I'll need one 10 foot or so branch to reach my Table saw, which is in the middle of the shop. I thought I'd keep the jet for my router table, which is in the far end of the shop and would require an additional 17 feet of duct work to attach to the cyclone.

Bob, I do think that a 2hp would work fine, however.... When I bought mine, I bought it with a new shop in mind, so I planed in some expansion. The length of the runs is one factor for more power, but not the only one. The shop I intend to build will be 60x30ish, so the runs could get long. The 2hp system would have worked fine the salesman said, as long as the system in mind ran as planned. Because this new shop is just an idea at this phase, I felt more comfortable with a wider margin of error.

I don't know the secrets to designing a dust collection system, but in my experience with my current shop layout, the 2hp would have been more then enough. I currently come off the DC with 5' of 8" pipe, a wye down to one drop and seven inch, for another 15 ', followed by a two sets of drops, and a y to 6". All in all, five 5" drops, 5' of 8", 15' of 7", 30' of 6". I have quite a few twists and turns to get around my little space.

When you ask them the question, and they say 2hp will work fine, I guess now I'd believe them.

[Michael Lutz]

Look at Oneida's duct design. They had figured in way too many drops into mine. I combined multiple tools into a single drop. The cost for my ductwork was approx. $2500. With my modifications I knocked it down to $550 and had a functional system with 4 drops along one side of the shop. I am looking at spending $130 to add the rest of the tools on the other side of the shop. I can buy the snap lock pipe locally in 6" and smaller sizes.

Mike

[Larry Fox]

I definitely agree with Jim B that you can build your own blast gates and get away MUCH cheaper and with an equal or sometimes superior product. I built mine based on the following design (pic below);

http://web.ripnet.com/~scater/Blast_gates.htm

I built 9 of them fairly quickly and am very happy with the result. To good part about building your own (other than the cost) is that you can go completely custom. For example, if you have a long length of pipe which gets a blast at the end, no problem, just build the gate onto the end of the pipe and there will be no joint.

IMG_6932_smalljpg.jpg

[Steven Wilson]

I was able to cut roughly 40% off the piping that Oneida spec'd by redoing their design somewhat. Get out your pen and paper and have a go.