Frank's Workshop Construction Project

[Dan Mages]

My family's old hardware store had an oak floor that was not kept up in probab;y 80 years. It was well weathered to a nice grey from all of the paint oil and dirt. I cannot think of a better floor for a shop than an unfinished common oak floor.

3 bits, adjusted for inflation.

Dan

[Terry Hatfield]

Frank,

Congratulations!!!!!!!!!!!!! You have done a wonderful job on the shop project and it's documentation. I have throughly enjoyed the thread. I hope you are very proud of your accomplishment. I look forward to seeing the shop get populated.

Have a good Christmas...don't see how it can't be considering your present to yourself!!

t

[Frank Pellow]

My workshop and the experience of building it was greatly enhanced by the ability to bounce problems and ideas off my friends at Saw Mill Creek. I thank you for your interest, your encouragement, and your suggestions.

Here is a summary of all the ways in which you helped me:

• The fact that I was filing a weekly report on Saw Mill Creek, encouraged me to work a little harder in order to be able to meet published objectives.

• The original plan was for floor joist on 24" centres. Questions re ability to support heavy machinery caused me to switch to 16" centres.

• I increased the distance between the dust control unit and the wood stove and built a wall between the two.

• The size of the shop was increased by 23 square feet.

• I was talked out of installing floor electrical receptacles.

• I was talked into installing ceiling electrical receptacles (6 of them).

• Several loops of 240 #10 wire were placed behind junction boxes at strategic locations throughout in case I need 240 power at those sites in the future.

• Wall switches for the dust control unit were placed at locations close to all blast gates. (I don't like remotes!)

• Many additional refinements were made to the electrical plans.

• The service was upgraded from 60 amp to 100 amp and a large Square D sub-panel was used.

• The plans for the insulation of the floor were changed completely. I had originally planned to install rigid foam between two layers of plywood. Switching to R21.5 under the bottom layer of plywood saved money, lowered the floor (as I wanted), and provided a higher R factor.

• Wire mesh was installed under the floor insulation in order to discourage critters.

• The proper shingling was done at the peak of the shed-roof portions of my roof.

• The dust control system was upgraded to Oneida 2hp commercial.

• As suggested, I had friends come by to help me install the Oneida cyclone (and I needed that help).

• I moved the dust control unit closer to the wall.

• The convoluted ductwork was simplified and enhanced.

• The original bracket that was supplied for mounting the cyclone was not the correct one. Because someone on the forum (sorry I forget who) sent the picture of my leaning unit to Oneida, they sent me the correct bracket at no cost to me.

• I was convinced to purchase the Festool circular saw and guide rail and this combination saved me a lot of time with all the plywood, etc that had to be cut and produced much better results.

And, I expect that I forgot some. As I remember them, I will update the list.

[Maurice Ungaro]

Frank,
I am somewhat envious, but not all that much, as my garage/shop is under construction as we speak (foundation work done, framing to start).
Question: I was planning on a wood stove in the shop, not so much for heat (not too much of a call for it in Atlanta, Ga., but to get rid of the evidence of my mistakes, and the occasional cut-off scrap), bur have heard some stories about guys who have had their shops go up in flames, due to a spark that smoldered in sawdust, in some obscure corner.

Am I being overly nervous/cautious?

Maurice

[Frank Pellow]

Frank,
...
Question: I was planning on a wood stove in the shop, not so much for heat (not too much of a call for it in Atlanta, Ga., but to get rid of the evidence of my mistakes, and the occasional cut-off scrap), bur have heard some stories about guys who have had their shops go up in flames, due to a spark that smoldered in sawdust, in some obscure corner.

Am I being overly nervous/cautious?

Maurice

I have lived with woodstoves all my life. That's how we heated my Dad's hardware store and our apartment above it. That's how I heat the three buildings and my sauna at my summer place in Northern Ontario. That's how my Dad, my Granddad, my aunt, and one of my uncles heated their woodworking shops.

Because of this, I don't have any fear of a woodstove. But, I do have a great deal of respect of what a wood fire can do (a fire (but not from a stove) burned down the original cabin at Pellow's camp) and I am always cautious around them.

[David Dixson]

Frank,

I've read this post from beginning to end and have enjoyed it immensely. I have always wanted my own shop and reading this post allowed me to think through all the things I will one day have to do to have my own. Please continue to post pictures as you get your tools coming in.

Thank you,

Dave

[Marty Walsh]

Hi Frank,

First, let me thank you for two things. Thanks for your responses to my recent post about wood flooring in my (hopefully) soon to be built shop (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=29666). Second, and much more importantly, thanks for chronicling your shop construction project. I just got done reading ALL the posts in ALL your threads. What a wealth of information!!! You did a tremendous service to all creekers with your journalling every step of the project. I thought about doing the same, but I know I wouldn't be able to do the fine job you did, so I'll probably just keep records and post it on my website for anyone that's interested.

With that out of the way, I do have a few questions for you.

1) I've seen your time and cost breakdowns. Did you record either of these in greater detail...time and cost per task?

I'm trying to estimate both the cost and time involved in my project, and this additional information would be helpful. Also, do you have any detailed records on materials?

2) About your beam and joist layout, I'm a little confused. I'm designing my shop to have laminated beams attached to the tops of the piers, but then the joists will sit atop the beams at a 90 degree angle. From the pictures in post #36 of this post, http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=8790&page=3 , it appears that your joists run parellel to the beams.

Am I just not looking at the picture correctly, or am I correct? If I'm correct, is there some structural reason to do this?

Oh, and regardless of their orientation, how did you attach the joists to the beams? Did you use joist hangers or just nails? As I said, I'm planning to have my joists sit atop the beams, but am now thinking strung between them with hangers might be better.

3) Again, concerning your beams, I think I can see in various pictures that they're all made from laminated pressure treated 2 x 8's, correct? But in post #59 of your main workshop thread, it appears that they're not all uniform. It looks to me like the top beam in the center picture is triple 2 x 8's, but the other two shown are only double.

Are they all double (or triple)?

And while I'm asking, how did you determine the required dimensions? Why 2 x 8's and not 2 x 10's? etc...

Oh, and again as long as I'm asking, how did you determine the required spacing of your piers? It looks from the various pictures that they're spaced roughly 8 feet apart. Is that correct, 8 feet apart? How did you decide?

4) Once again, concerning your beams, can you tell me the brand/model of the 'saddle' you used to attach them to the piers?

I've poured over Simpson's website, since they seem to be the 'standard' down here. But, I can't find anything that looks like what you used. The closest I can find are these:
http://www.strongtie.com/products/co...rs/LCB-CB.html

These are shown on the site to be used for attaching posts to piers, but I guess they'd work.

5) And finally, how's the shop holding up? (Aside from the dustpan incident )

Is the floor rigid enough? How about your floor insulation? Is it performing satisfactorily? (I don't have the cold to deal with where I am, but I'm thinking I'll insulate my floor to keep in the A/C.) Are there any things you wished you had done, or not done, or would have done differently, now that you've lived in your shop for a year?

Again Frank, thanks for doing such a great job documenting your project and sharing it it with all of us. I hope these additional questions aren't too much to ask.

It seems this thread will never die Frank...a tribute to your contribution to us all...

Thanks again...
- Marty -

[Frank Pellow]

Hi Frank,

First, let me thank you for two things. Thanks for your responses to my recent post about wood flooring in my (hopefully) soon to be built shop (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=29666). Second, and much more importantly, thanks for chronicling your shop construction project. I just got done reading ALL the posts in ALL your threads. What a wealth of information!!! You did a tremendous service to all creekers with your journalling every step of the project. I thought about doing the same, but I know I wouldn't be able to do the fine job you did, so I'll probably just keep records and post it on my website for anyone that's interested.

Marty, I appreciate your thanks. It's always good to know that I have been of help to others.

I will respond to your questions soon, but first, for folks such as you who may be struggling through "ALL the posts in ALL my shop threads", there is now an easier way. I have taken a lot of material from the threads, added some other stuff, and put it all together into a journal on a CD. If anyone would like a copy of the CD, it's free. Just send me your mailing address and I will send you a CD. See the thread: http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=23882

[Frank Pellow]

With that out of the way, I do have a few questions for you.

1) I've seen your time and cost breakdowns. Did you record either of these in greater detail...time and cost per task?

I'm trying to estimate both the cost and time involved in my project, and this additional information would be helpful. Also, do you have any detailed records on materials?

I did not record time per task but I might be able to recreate it. I will think about it and report back in a day or two.

I do have a complete breakdown of material costs and can send them to folks as a Microsoft Word document or as html files. If anyone would like this please send me your email address and preferred format and I will send the files to you.

2) About your beam and joist layout, I'm a little confused. I'm designing my shop to have laminated beams attached to the tops of the piers, but then the joists will sit atop the beams at a 90 degree angle. From the pictures in post #36 of this post, http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...?t=8790&page=3 , it appears that your joists run parallel to the beams.

Am I just not looking at the picture correctly, or am I correct? If I'm correct, is there some structural reason to do this?

Oh, and regardless of their orientation, how did you attach the joists to the beams? Did you use joist hangers or just nails? As I said, I'm planning to have my joists sit atop the beams, but am now thinking strung between them with hangers might be better.

The joists are perpendicular to the beams, so I guess you are not looking at the picture correctly.

I nailed the joists to the beams (using spiral galvanized nails). I also put 2 x 8 spacers between all joists and they are fastened with nails to both the beams and the joists.

3) Again, concerning your beams, I think I can see in various pictures that they're all made from laminated pressure treated 2 x 8's, correct? But in post #59 of your main workshop thread, it appears that they're not all uniform. It looks to me like the top beam in the center picture is triple 2 x 8's, but the other two shown are only double.

Are they all double (or triple)?

They are all triple.

And while I'm asking, how did you determine the required dimensions? Why 2 x 8's and not 2 x 10's? etc... Oh, and again as long as I'm asking, how did you determine the required spacing of your piers? It looks from the various pictures that they're spaced roughly 8 feet apart. Is that correct, 8 feet apart? How did you decide?

My brother in law, Rob, is a civil engineer and has a (one man) business that specializes in consultation about building structural requirements. I had him review my basic plans and check that I was using the correct strength and correct span beams, joists, rafters, etc. Rob's service cost me a case of beer.

4) Once again, concerning your beams, can you tell me the brand/model of the 'saddle' you used to attach them to the piers?

I've poured over Simpson's website, since they seem to be the 'standard' down here. But, I can't find anything that looks like what you used. The closest I can find are these:
http://www.strongtie.com/products/co...rs/LCB-CB.html

These are shown on the site to be used for attaching posts to piers, but I guess they'd work.

Pier saddles are a commodity item in most building supply stores in Canada. I bought the ones for this building at a nearby Home Depot for about $3.50 (Cdn) each. I am quite sure that the were not stamped with any kind in identification.

5) And finally, how's the shop holding up? (Aside from the dustpan incident )
Is the floor rigid enough? How about your floor insulation? Is it performing satisfactorily? (I don't have the cold to deal with where I am, but I'm thinking I'll insulate my floor to keep in the A/C.) Are there any things you wished you had done, or not done, or would have done differently, now that you've lived in your shop for a year?

The shop is holding up very well indeed and the layout is working for me. The floor seems to be very rigid and it is very comfortable.

The list of "wish I had dones" is pretty much the same as I reported towards the end of the main thread, that is:

• Make the building one foot longer (with the extra length in the north wing)

• Make the walls 6 inches higher all round

• Install one additional (long) skylight

• Go directly to a propane company installed rental tank (I wasted time and money on my own installation).

• Use thicker plywood (nominally 3/4 inch) on the roof.

Again Frank, thanks for doing such a great job documenting your project and sharing it it with all of us. I hope these additional questions aren't too much to ask.

It seems this thread will never die Frank...a tribute to your contribution to us all...

Thanks again...
- Marty -

Once more Marty, you are welcome.

One of the greatest resources that we have here on Saw Mill Creek is our archives. In that way, many threads should never die. A lot of people do not take advantage of this resource but I do notice a sudden resurgence of interest in most of the (good) old threads that get re-opened. Maybe, I will do folks a service and find one old thread each week and reopen it (and I don't mean threads that I started).

[Marty Walsh]

Marty, I appreciate your thanks. It's always good to know that I have been of help to others.

I will respond to your questions soon, but first, for folks such as you who may be struggling through "ALL the posts in ALL my shop threads", there is now an easier way. I have taken a lot of material from the threads, added some other stuff, and put it all together into a journal on a CD. If anyone would like a copy of the CD, it's free. Just send me your mailing address and I will send you a CD. See the thread: http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=23882

Frank,

There you go again, making me thank you MORE! What a generous offer, one that I'm taking you up on. I've sent you my snail mail addr for the CD, and my email addr for the Word document.

Thanks for answering my other questions. You cleared up the few things I was still wondering about.

By the way, was the spacing on your piers eight foot as it appears in the pictures?

Time for me to get back to deisgning, since it's pouring rain and I can't do any more land clearing.

- Marty -

[Frank Pellow]

Frank,
...
By the way, was the spacing on your piers eight foot as it appears in the pictures?
...
- Marty -

There are 13 piers in three rows. The spans between them vary as I will try to show below:

X-----6------X-------8--------X---------9---------X--------9----------X






X-----6------X-------8--------X--------8--------X----------10---------X






____________X-------8--------X--------8--------X

In my attempt at a diagram above, the posts are shown with brown Xs and the centre to centre spans between them (in feet) are shown with digits.

[Marty Walsh]

There are 13 piers in three rows. The spans between them vary as I will try to show below:
.
.
.

In my attempt at a diagram above, the posts are shown with brown Xs and the centre to centre spans between them (in feet) are shown with digits.

Thanks for clarifying. I'm trying to get some time with a local engineer to discuss this, and the sizes for beams and joists. I'll post an update once I have more info.

- Marty -

[Frank Pellow]

Based upon Marty's interest and quastions, I calculated the final cost of my shop (including some finish-up work in 2005) by the major components of that cost.

I thought that the summary (in particualr the percentages) would be of interest to some others here on Saw Mill Creek.

Task____________________ ________________Cost______Percentage

Permits, Inspections, Deliveries_______________556_______2

Piers, beams, joists, and insulated sub-floor___4,417______16

Exterior Walls (insulated)___________________4,113______15

Roof (insulated)___________________________2,696_____10

Interior Floors, Walls, and Ceiling_____________1,923______7

Doors, Windows and Skylights_______________ 3,219______12

Electrical_________________________________3,216__ ___12

Dust Collection System_____________________3,217_____12

Heating__________________________________2,728____ _10

Interior Shelves, drawers, pegboard, etc________611______2

Unused or Wasted___________________________260______1

Total Cost________________________________26,956

Costs are in Canadian Dollars

[Frank Pellow]

Lookin' great, Frank! (very...blue... ) Can we assume you'll formalize the "bridge" to the deck and fully close in that space?

Hey Jim, you will be glad to know that (almost two years later), I finally removed the bridge and closed in the space:

The bridge has been replaced.JPG

It is the first thing that I did in the deck restoration/extension project that I started this week.

[Frank Pellow]

The ongoing saga of my shop construction has a new chapter. I am finally getting around to fixing the deck that I had to partly destroy in order to build the shop. This project will be covered in the thread: - Restoration and Extension of My 31 Year Old Deck http://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=43279